From Resentment to Participation, Driving Change with Magnus Johnson

Magnus Johnson, co-Founder of Mission 22, joins the show to share his journey as a veteran participating in the effort to increase mental health for people who have served. From his experience in the military to working with cohorts of vets like himself, Magnus talks about the path to integrating warriors into their new worlds.

 

“You might not know the right answers, you might not know what you should or shouldn’t do but you must participate. That statement hit me.”

— Magnus Johnson

 

Learn more about Johnson’s techniques in developing practices and maintaining a regimen in this special Memorial Day Week/Weekend episode of This Is NuCalm.

 

Listen to This Is NuCalm on Apple & Spotify!

 

Magnus Johnson is an eight-year Army Veteran, former Green Beret, family man, writer, and artist. He completed three combat tours, two in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. As President and Co-Founder of Mission 22, a 501(c)3 organization, Johnson leverages his talents, skills, and understanding of warrior psychology to help solve the suicide epidemic engulfing America’s veterans.

He is a visionary leader and excellent at forming individualized solutions to large challenges. Johnson has been awarded a Bronze Star Medal for Combat actions and a Congressional Record in the Indiana House of Representatives for Service to Country and Community.

 

Find out more about Magnus on his LinkedIn.



Key Takeaways

[1:00] David welcomes Magnus Johnson, former Green Beret Special Forces veteran, and asks him to share a little bit about growing up and how 9/11 propelled him into an entirely different life.

 

[8:20] Infantry and Green Beret are different in a series of fundamental ways, Magnus shares his experience of both. He also talks about learning to become a demolition expert.

 

[10:55] All great things require sacrifice but Magnus wasn’t aware of the gravity of the sacrifices he made during his service until he transitioned back to civilian life. He speaks of his lengthy reintegration experience.

 

[14:13] Navigating intimacy, trust, and vulnerability unfolded serendipitously through a smart and understanding woman he met whose father served in Vietnam — his wife Sara.

 

[16:23] Magnus takes a moment to describe some of the concrete methods he used to drive himself towards positivity and redeveloping his frontal cortex function and his ability to connect, create intimacy, and be vulnerable.

 

[18:18] Is it the military? The Government? The community? Parents? Culture? Involvement in armed conflict invites serious philosophical questions of responsibility as it relates to soldiers’ mental health. Magnus speaks of his own understanding of the core problems as well as how he sees the solutions.

 

[23:18] Mission 22 was Magnus’s response to feeling disenfranchised by the V.A. compounded by the suicide epidemic. He shares the radical change of thought that started it all.

 

[29:42] What does Mission 22 do, how does NuCalm come into play and how can listeners help or get involved?

 

[33:52] Program engagement and compliance are tricky, Magnus shares how his organization promotes it.

 

[36:52] Magnus talks about the problem of substance abuse and while his programs — and NuCalm — can help with addiction in general, they are not built to tackle that singular issue.

 

[39:32] Family engagement has been a huge revelation for Magnus, he shares some of his plans for the future of Mission 22 in that regard.

 

[41:59] The ever-serious Magnus also likes running, snowboarding, rock climbing, reading, and creating! He also nerds out on The Hobbit!

 

[46:15] On the possibility of teaching, and running for office.

 

[48:32] Audience question #1 How often does Magnus use NuCalm?

 

[50:49] #2 What is the R&R program on Mission 22?

 

[52:35] #3 How long has Magnus been using NuCalm?

 

[54:18] #4 What tracks does Magnus use and how long does he do it?

 

[56:06] #5 Magnus’s tips for focusing under massive amounts of stress.

 

[58:09] #6 Has Magnus integrated manual therapy with NuCalm?

 

[1:10:01] #7 Magnus’ advice for a new NuCalm user on building a routine in a time crunch or in a setting where you can’t show weakness.

 

[1:17:30] David thanks Magnus for his service and for sharing so much of his experience.

 

Continue on your journey and until next time, breathe deep, relax, and keep looking forward.

 

Mentioned in this episode

NuCalm

Mission 22

The Language of Creation: Cosmic Symbolism in Genesis, by Mathieu Pageau

The Secret of the Golden Flower: A Chinese Book of Life, by Richard Wilhelm

On The Cosmic Mystery of Jesus Christ, by Saint Maximus Confessor

Embodied Spirituality in a Sacred World, by Michael Washburn

Biocentrism: How Life and Consciousness are the Keys to Understanding the True Nature of the Universe, by Robert Lanza MD with Bob Berman

 

This is NuCalm, the show for those looking to improve sleep quality, manage stress, and boost recovery. Brought to you by Solace Lifesciences, the makers of NuCalm, the world’s only patented and proven neuroscience technology that works within minutes, without drugs, every time! In over one million medical sessions, NuCalm has helped men and women around the world.

 

NuCalm: stress relief for the way we live today, technology to help you disconnect.


Full Transcript

David Poole
Good evening, everybody. It’s David Poole and Erika Robinson again from Solace Lifesciences and we’re here to welcome you to another master series call, Thursday-night call. This is, I think, the second or third one we’ve done in 2021 and I’m thrilled and really honored to host Magnus Johnson tonight.

David Poole
So, I first became aware of Magnus, Jim’s been running points. Everybody knows probably on this call that I have another twin brother Jim, who’s my boss, and with the military. And he shared a quote with use from Magnus years ago, two or three years ago and it was really profound, really powerful and when you run a business and have a product and you’re always trying to think of the right ways to present it and then someone who doesn’t know anything about your tech and isn’t invested in marketing for you comes out with a brilliant, sincere, authentic way to present it, I just remember that. And I use that quote if you don’t mind, Magnus, very often when I’m talking to people especially around post-traumatic stress and the phenomenon of assimilating back into civilian life after a year of service.

David Poole
So, we’ve had several of these calls which are really meaningful for us with decorated service people. And tonight, Magnus is a retired Special Forces Army stud, if you will, and one of the things that we’ll talk about that for sure, that’s always exciting for us and those are real-life heroes. I’ve developed an unbelievable appreciation for the people who sacrifice the way they do to defend us and keep us safe.

David Poole
Let’s get started. I’d like to introduce you to Magnus Johnson and I want to talk a bit from the beginning. I’d like to start in these conversations by inviting Magnus and our guest to share their life journey. I think it’s always curious to find out how you do what you do, why you do what you do, where you came from and what’s your interest in doing next.

Magnus Johnson
Okay. Hi, David. Thanks for the introduction. So, my name’s Magnus Johnson, a former Green Beret. 40 years old and I guess my life journey, it started in a van. My dad was a Welsh rocker. My mom was kind of a young college student. They met in Norway. My dad was from Wales, my mom was from Minnesota. And we lived on the road and he played music and we went to flea markets and sold stuff, traveled around and it was, what’s the word, Bohemian. I don’t know. Rubber tramps, homeless. We happened to have talent. They had creativity. They wanted to live that way, but it was definitely not like a Mercedes van that you see today. You know what I mean? It wasn’t a recreation REI commercial. It was a sky blue van with a mural and we had to fix the carburetor to get around to the next flea market.

Magnus Johnson
And so the journey starts there, I think because it was rough. I had to pay attention. Back in the 80s as a kid running around flea markets is a bit different. I had to be creative. I remember buying and selling things and fix them up and having my own little flea market booth, buying knives, polishing them, sharpening them, and then reselling them. And the way this ties in is that we were moving around. There was a sense of adventure. I had to have my wits about me and I liked moving. I liked moving through life, symbolically, physically. I’ve always had itchy feet since then.

Magnus Johnson
And then, as life went on, I did a lot of work. I worked in the oil field. I tried a little bit of commercial fishing. I did some post and polling, carpentry, concrete, sales, I tried sales. And one day it just kind of dawned on me that … Well, actually 9/11 happened. Okay. So, get an idea who I am, the traveler, I like working, I like getting outside, I like adventure. 9/11 happens and up until that point, I never went to a recruiter. I thought the Air Force was cool flying jets, but I didn’t want to be in the military. I didn’t hate authority, but I didn’t like the idea being told what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. And so, I was fine with that. I was just going to cut my own way, but then 9/11 happened and then something inside of me completely altered. I couldn’t stop thinking about it. I wouldn’t even call it I wanted to seek revenge so much as that I wanted to participate in the biggest thing happening in our lifetime and I felt that I was young, I was able and that I should participate.

Magnus Johnson
And as I was deliberating whether or not to join, I came across a guy named Joseph Campbell. And he wrote the book Hero with a Thousand Faces, basically the hero’s journey template that Disney uses and films use, it’s based off this guy. And you might not know the right answers. You might not know what you should or shouldn’t do but you must participate. And that line, that statement hit me.

Magnus Johnson
And then, I remember watching TV and judging and, “That reporter’s full of crap,” or, “They should do this,” this back seat sort of couch quarterback stuff at a young age and I was like, “Man! I don’t know what I’m talking about. I have no idea what’s going on. I’m a voyeur. I’m just sitting back here judging something I have no idea. How do I know if it’s right or wrong or justified or not justified,” because I got no skin in the game. And so, eventually, I was compelled. I had to do it.

Magnus Johnson
And so, I joined the military and I wanted to go to Europe and I wanted to be combat arms. And so, that was infantry, tanker, cav scout, or combat engineer at the time. And so, the recruiter was like, “Hey, combat engineer’s like infantry with C-4.” That’s probably not entirely true, but at the time, I was like, “Yep. That’s me. That’s what I want to do. I want to be just like infantry in addition with C-4.” And infantry guys will say, “Oh, B.S.” But, for a combat engineer, it depends on who you’re attached to, what you end up doing.

Magnus Johnson
And then, I ended up in Ramadi, Iraq in 2006, which was, if people are in the military know that that location at that time was very violent, very hard, a lot of death, and I got resentful and I got bitter about my experience because I felt like I really wasn’t … I mean, it was there and I did my job, but it was more, even though as a soldier, it felt passive. We’d go on patrol. They would tell us to be somewhere at a certain time and do something at a certain time and then that’s what we would do. And I knew that if I was going to stay in the military and stay involved in this conflict that I needed to do it as a Green Beret.

Magnus Johnson
And so, I signed up, went to selection, passed, and did two more tours as a Green Beret, but an engineer, so I kept access to the demo and kept doing that job. And so that’s sort of the spirit of what led me there. I mean, there’s obviously a lot more details, but that’s sort of who I was in a nutshell, what kind of drove me and then the catalyst that altered my decisions.

David Poole
So, you said you got resentful and a little bitter and then you wanted to be a deeper part of the action, so obviously you’re a person who, like you said, wants to be involved in the game. Can you walk me through the experiences you had as a Green Beret? How are they different than just as an infantry guy with demolition skills?

Magnus Johnson
Well, it’s bottom up instead of top down, so you’re creating the intelligence. You’re reporting to higher … I mean, sometimes they tell you what to do, but you’re reporting to higher what you think you should do and most of the time, they support that. So, you have much more … As you’re on a team, you’re not the commander or the Zulu, the team sergeant, but you’re the expert in your field and they take your … So, if they want to, “Hey, blow up this building,” or, “Take out this IUD,” or, “Build this,” they come to you for your expertise. They’ll tell you what they want and give you a right and left limit and an end state but you have that authority to make it happen.

Magnus Johnson
And so, I love doing Army stuff. I didn’t like being in the Army. And so, I need to find a way to make that work and for me, that was special forces because it’s very serious, it’s very fast, you’re expected to know your job and the decisions you make matter, they make or just the mission will be a success or failure based on some of your decisions, the things you do. And it’s just full tilt and that’s what I wanted. I didn’t want to be … I mean, don’t take anything away from the regular Army guys. I was one. It’s a hard life, but I wanted to be driving the mission. I didn’t want to just be participating in this bigger mission. I wanted to actually get my hands on it and understand it and create it, develop it and then do it.

David Poole
Can I ask you just a tactical question about that? How do you learn the job to be a demolitions expert? Did you ever have chances where you did too much C-4 and a lot more of the community disappeared than you expected. I mean-

Magnus Johnson
No. I mean, the training’s phenomenal. I mean, the training, the process is phenomenal. Mistakes can be made, but that organization recruits and trains and mentors better than any other organization I’ve ever seen.

David Poole
Excellent. So, can you walk us through the transition from being a demolitions expert and serving and being an almost owner-operator, part of a group like that, to coming back to civilian life and faking it till you make it?

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. Whether you’re building a business or writing a book or maybe doing a PhD, anything great requires sacrifice and though my military service, I was sacrificing the whole time without knowing it and I couldn’t see or feel or wasn’t aware of the gravity of some of these sacrifices until my surrounding’s changed. Within the military, within the situation, I knew I had some problems with memory and I was having some problems with self-medication, and all these other issues but my mirrors looked like me.

Magnus Johnson
Then, when I got out of the military, I started to realize like, “Well, I am different. I’m at a different speed or pace. The continuity, the flow, how I speak to people. Everything’s off, a little.” Have you seen the movie Men in Black, the first one? When the alien crashes and puts on the farmer’s skin, that’s how I felt. I mean, I felt like awkward and aggressive and confident, but then not knowing how to engage in this other kind of alien world and everything was sort of off and I couldn’t get the timing and the rhythm and I couldn’t get comfortable and obviously it turned out to be complications with traumatic brain injury and some PTSD and all these other things that … We can unpack that more because I think that some of those terms and better … It’s more of a nuanced explanation, but I began to become aware that I was a little bit isolating, not really connecting with people, not really enjoying what I should or what people said I should.

Magnus Johnson
And I don’t think they were 100% right but they are right that I needed to find a new way. They call it transition, but I need to integrate being a warrior, not abandon it. And I think the kind of message is, “Hey, abandon this identity and now you’re home, now you need this identity.” And that doesn’t work for me. I couldn’t go from driving a Ferrari to a VW Bug and think, act, talk, be, communicate in this completely different culture overnight. And I didn’t want to disown who I am to take on this other role that is not me, but I needed to find a way to integrate it and so that took some time. I’m still doing it. I think we all are to some degree with our transitions in life and the different identities and the roles we play.

David Poole
How many years have you been out of the service, Magnus?

Magnus Johnson
I think nine.

David Poole
Okay.

Magnus Johnson
I got out in the end of 2011-

David Poole
Yep. We’ll you’re in your-

Magnus Johnson
… or maybe more.

David Poole
… 10th year now.

Magnus Johnson
Yeah.

David Poole
How did you navigate things like intimacy and relationships and trust and how to be vulnerable with people you didn’t know yet?

Magnus Johnson
I wish I could say I got Brené Brown as a mentor, Power of Vulnerability, but luckily, I met a woman that, her dad was in Vietnam. So, you can look at that two ways. You’re just continuing these kind of military warped relationships, but we didn’t do that but luckily, her dad was in Vietnam. She had a general understanding of some of this stuff, but then there was no pity and she wasn’t like a doormat, either, but there was familiarity, understanding and she’s a very powerful person, my wife.

Magnus Johnson
This is a big question so it’s going to take me a moment to talk about it, but intimacy is a very difficult thing after a long period of aggression and violence, conflict, adrenaline. Your frontal lobe gets shut down with stress, with tension in the body, with fight or flight, your identity, your frontal lobe, your sort of compassion and ability to connect and have joy and be vulnerable, it’s not that you don’t intellectually understand. It’s that it’s physiologically impossible unless you develop it depending on who you are and depending on how your life’s been.

Magnus Johnson
And so, I think lucky for me, my wife’s dad was in Vietnam. She’s very bright. I had a desire to be better. A lot of people burn in after they get out of the military. I sort of burning in while I was still in, so I had the chance to kind of work on some stuff while I was still in. And I’m a visual person. And one day, I had this visual feeling that there’s a scale in front of me. I’m in charge of where the pebbles go. And if I do every little decision and put the pebbles on the side of positivity, sooner or later, that thing’s going to tip.

Magnus Johnson
And so, I started to try to develop awareness, consciousness, observing my behavior, asking myself why I think and act and respond in certain ways and then trying to be able to get a little more time between a flash and a bang. So, and people do this today with the meditation practice, like observe your feelings, observe your motivations.

Magnus Johnson
And so because of that partnership with her, because of my willingness and desire to want to be that way, I’ve read hundreds of books. I’ve gone to Buddhist temples. Obviously, I use NuCalm. I do all these different things to increase my capacity for intimacy, vulnerability, joy, being in the present and keeping my body at a state of calm so that I can cognate, empathize, and connect, but I had to want to do it and then I had to create habits and disciplines that made that more probable. I couldn’t just decide to do it. I had to create an environment where that could happen.

David Poole
I know. It seems almost unfair that you take, as a young kid. Like you said, you wanted to fight. And you brainwash to some degree, I mean, they’re building you, so you marshal all your intensity to command and to control and destroy the target. And then you decide you’re done. You don’t reenlist and then you’ve got to catch up to everybody else who’s been playing this game of life in less serious circumstances and you’re not allowed a lot of opportunity to fail and you’re judged for it. I wonder if it would make more sense, and this is a silly conversation, but if our soldiers really started training at 30 years old instead of 20 years old and they had that adaptive experience and the desire to mature into a grown man instead of a soldier at 22 to 30, and the adjustment would be maybe a little easier because you’d have some context.

Magnus Johnson
I used to think that, but I don’t think that. That’s a [inaudible 001906] and hit. So, infantry mean infant soldier. That’s where the word derives from, infantry and infant. And wars always make young men die and old men talk. You hear this. And if you look throughout history, soldiers have been very young, especially in the infantry.

Magnus Johnson
It’s a philosophical question when you look at who’s responsible. Is it the military responsible? Is the government responsible? Are my parents responsible? Is the community responsible? Am I responsible? Is America in general responsible? So, I thought long and hard about this question and how you solve this problem and where the source of it is. And throughout history, conflict has always been a part of human history. What’s changed is how our contemporary culture thinks about it, thinks about wars, thinks about people that have participated in it, views it as separate. Less people do more of the fighting for longer in a post-modern Western society.

Magnus Johnson
For instance, Vietnamese veterans, I mean, at least from the studies I’ve read and from PhDs that have researched it. I don’t know from their own experiences, but what I’ve read from the research they’ve done is that Vietnamese soldiers don’t have PTSD like our American Vietnam veterans do. So, it’s how you conduct the war, where you conduct the war, the reasons for conducting the war and then what the role and the responsibility, the community and how they view warriors and how warriors view themselves. And so I don’t blame the military or the VA. They could always do better, but I think the blame to me is starting to go on the value systems that we have. I think we’re kind of at the tail end of a postmodern society who values superficial things and expects other people to pick up the tab.

Magnus Johnson
And so I don’t explicitly blame an institution or a military. I just think all of us haven’t caught up to the reality of what world we’re living in. I think the VA and the military are going to catch up but I think we need to catch up. We need to think about our role as community members and then that unpacks a bunch of political things like whether the war is right or wrong or what we should be doing and therein lies where I believe the PTSD emerges, that the path of honor, the path of full transition of integration, of a welcoming home, and this is who you are and we honor that, we respect that and now, here’s your role in society. That path has stayed intact until probably Korea, Vietnam, World War One, World War Two when war became industrialized. Maybe Napoleon. Napoleon started doing war of attritions. So, that started to fall apart when war became industrialized.

Magnus Johnson
It’s a lot there but there’s more to it than just the VA, the army. It really falls to all of us in different capacities.

David Poole
It’s very complex and our young men and women have paid the consequences and sacrifices, every generation. And for all of us who didn’t serve, we certainly appreciate what you go through. It seems like you’ve really taken on the burden and the complexity of it and thought through it a lot and you continue to evolve, which is remarkable and congratulations and keep up the good work.

Magnus Johnson
Well, I don’t want to be a victim. I don’t want to blame PTSD on something or somebody or something. We’re all in this together. We’re alive together. We’re going to die. And it’s happening real time right now, a hundred miles an hour and we’re adapting as we go and we’re learning, we’re growing, and we’re changing and technology’s getting better and we’re getting on the computer and ideas are coming together and …

Magnus Johnson
So, there needs to be a little grace here because we’re developing so quickly, so fast, and we’re learning things at such a rate and I think we need to give ourselves a little grace and think of not so much what we did wrong but what we can do better, because it’s crazy difference in just my lifetime and I’m only 40.

David Poole
Look, can we talk for a moment or as long as you’d like about how you got into the idea of Mission 22 and the opportunity to serve and help and really focus on giving back.

Magnus Johnson
There’s a theme here. I got resentful. I got out and I wasn’t mad at the VA and I was disenfranchised with, I believed all these things as a young man. I did it. I came out. It’s not true. But woe is me. And I got out and I thought I was arrogant. I’m like, “Okay. I’m going to get out. I’ll go do something. It won’t be a big deal. I’ll start a business.” And I was going to get a gold claim. I was going to hike all these different … I was going to do all these sort … But I was dead serious.

Magnus Johnson
And then some people I knew were killing themselves. And suicide’s a part of life. People can take their own lives. They have for a long time, but the frequency of it was starting to become apparent to me in 2011, 2012. And then I started Googling and then I started hearing about the 22-a-day suicide rate, and then you can argue that, like, “No, that’s this and this,” and however you get to that number, whether it’s Vietnam veterans or this or that. You can get all of them nuanced, but a lot of suicide’s happening. I’m going to blame somebody and somebody should do something.

Magnus Johnson
And then I was driving my old truck to go get a Big Gulp and a pack of cigarettes. I don’t smoke anymore and I don’t drink Big Gulp anymore, but this is like, got out of the military, whatever. And I saw this sign and it was a quote from some, probably Gandhi or something. It said, “Be the change you want to be.” It was a quote on a chalk board at a park and they would update it every day. And it said, “Be the change you want to be.” And I don’t know exactly who said it, but it’s probably somebody like that.

Magnus Johnson
And man, and I looked in the mirror and I got home, I’m like, “I’m bitter, I’m resentful, I’m pointcasting blame. I’m thinking what everybody should and shouldn’t do,” just like I was before I signed up. And, “Well, what the hell are you doing about it,” is what I asked myself. And I had to look in the mirror and go, “Nothing.” That sounds a little schizophrenic, but I wasn’t doing nothing and I knew it. And then, so the suicides were happening. I’m not doing anything and I’m blaming other people for it.

Magnus Johnson
And then you think of the scale thing with the pebbles of positivity and it’s like, “Okay. I’m not going to be the savior. I’m not going to save the veterans or whatever but I’m going to participate in solutions. I’m going to engage my life, the ugly, sloppy, stupid, outdated, unaware, naïve, for all of that, but I’m going to engage my life. I’m going to participate and I’m going to add value where I can and if I make a mistake, I’ll fix it. I’m going to participate in this.”

Magnus Johnson
And so, that was kind of the catalyst, the suicides. I started reading about it. I learned the truth. It’s hard to unlearn the truth. And then I had a moment of reckoning with myself. And then I had to make a decision and then it goes back to the beginning of my sort of stories. I want to be physically there. I want to just intellectually or academically, I want to physically participate and I want to think but I don’t want it to be theory. I want to see it manifest. And so then I began, I started. The first thing I did was this big art instillation and I knew how to weld. I knew how to work with metal. And I’m like, “What can I do?” And so we built this really cool art sculpture in the middle of this town that gets three million tourists a year. And I used what I knew and I participated.

David Poole
It’s amazing. It feels like that’s the theme here, not the resentful piece but you need to be in the action. I’d like to give you a couple big challenges like global hunger and climate change and get you to participate and solve those problems. No pressure!

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. I mean, but all this stuff requires a lot of introspection and thought. And then you need to galvanize yourself. And then don’t do it for the wrong reasons. You don’t want to be a hero. I remember thinking in the beginning, we started helping veterans and stuff like, “Oh, you’re helping me so much.” For a while there, I became really uncomfortable, like, “No. I’m not.”

Magnus Johnson
I read a book by Mother Teresa and she said, “Dismiss the compliments and the criticisms.” You can hear them. It’s feedback but don’t hold onto it. So, I appreciate compliments and I appreciate criticism, but a compliment doesn’t … I intentionally try not to allow it to skew my perspective of self. The same thing with criticism.

Magnus Johnson
And so, the charity work or solving problems or doing these things, there’s a dark side to charity where it’s because you’re codependent or you want to be seen as charitable. But once you get past that and just like to participate in this endeavor. I’m not God. I’m not saving anyone. I’m creating an environment by a lot of hard work where people can engage and participate in their lives and we’re doing it together and that’s what’s fun. And the minute I take responsibility for other people’s lives, I will never, ever, ever be happy. I will constantly feel like I’m never doing enough and I will think of myself as, “I could have done this,” and, “I could have done that.” And then I will be basically arrogant because I’m not God and I’m not that powerful and I can’t change anyone or anything, but I can just continue to put the pebbles on the scale and recruit and request and be consistent in my effort to be a participant in something that is helping a change.

Magnus Johnson
So, that’s been kind of a maturity thing over the last decade of doing this type of work, because in the beginning, I wanted to go pluck people out of the fire. And then some people, no matter how hard you pull won’t come out and if you think that’s your responsibility, it’s going to crush you.

David Poole
No. It’s absolutely true, indeed. Can you talk about how your charity Mission 22 helps people today? What’s the platform? What’s the framework? How can people get involved?

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. Well, I mean, there’s the obvious. Donate, buy a shirt, talk and all that, but I think we do a lot of things, but I want to talk about R+R. It’s the new program that we’ve created which is a year long, it involves NuCalm in the [inaudible 003123] supplementation, it involves biofeedback tools, it involves coaching over a year’s period and it involves nutrition and it involves meditation and it involves reading books. And the reason it involves all these things is because changing who you are or overcoming your ego or re-wiring your frontal lobe or changing your physiology is difficult. And it takes time and effort and repetition.

Magnus Johnson
And so what I’m really … I mean, from the website, we do a lot of stuff. You can see it all on the website but the biggest thing that I’m really excited about because the Special Forces motto is to free the oppressed. And so, by creating this pipeline where people go on a journey of, they’re learning to meditate, they’re learning to eat right, they’re learning to engage back into working out. They’re understanding nutrition supplementation and they’re measuring their sleep and stress with the best like Garmin Fenix 6 and the best watches we can get that accurately measure these indicators, that’s kind of what I’ve been most excited about. As far as numbers, we’ve only got roughly 50 people in that program. We just got started a few months ago. I was beginning before the COVID, but COVID set everything back.

Magnus Johnson
So, that’s not a lot of people. We feed people. We have horse programs. We do the ambassador program. We got a national monument being built this summer. We’ve had other health programs and doctors that we’ve paid for. So, if we look at the ambassadors, I can say like, “Oh, we have thousands of ambassadors,” and this and that, but the real exciting thing is we’re creating a program that’s scalable, that’s driven by the participant where they go through the hero’s journey. They learn who they are. They understand the terms, the transitions, the psychology of what’s going on with them and then they’re the hero in their journey versus the victim or versus the person being helped. We all need help sometimes, but when we start to believe the narrative that someone just needs to help us, help us, help us but we don’t realize that sometimes we have to help ourselves and then help others and become a helper and while we’re getting help.

Magnus Johnson
And so, that’s what I’m most excited about. I can list off like concrete, all our programs or ways to get involved as far as an ambassador or social media or to volunteer or donate, but I think the reason with NuCalm and having this conversation is rest, recovery, and resiliency program. Call it R+R for short. And that’s the program I’m most excited about, that’s the one I’m going to have all my attention focused, that’s the one I’m going to try to scale and that’s the one I’m going to take to the VA, and that’s the one I’m going to take to the army, and that’s the one I think that people are going to start understanding that they’re their hero in their own narrative and that’s the … Doctors aren’t available 24/7. Psychologists aren’t available 24/7. I am not available 24/7, but you are to yourself. The biggest asset we have is ourselves. But, in order to change, it requires habits and discipline and support and that, at some point in that journey of change, then you have to be willing to help others and that’s full integration.

David Poole
How do you encourage compliance remotely with a change paradigm or platform like that? It seems really challenging? I’m just curious about the engagement. Do you talk to them once a week on Zoom? Is it …

Magnus Johnson
I don’t personally. I’m mentoring the people that are running the program. And so we have a wellness coordinator who speaks to them at least quarterly, if not monthly, and then we have coaches, they do minimum of six coaching sessions per quarter. And then, the group as in a cohort and they interact with a wellness coordinator on a cohort model on the internet.

Magnus Johnson
And so, if you create a culture of accountability, it becomes self-cleansing, self-operating, self-driving. And so I’m trying to create a culture of accountability, desire, sometimes tough love. Not like, “Get up. You don’t feel any pain.” Not that, but, “Hey, you’re only a good as your last thought.” Like, “Well, I meditated last week.” “Cool. You meditated today?” “No. I worked out two years ago.” You’re like, “Yeah. You need to work out every day.” But you can create an environment and a culture where that becomes the standard. There’s a lot of culture. So, in the military you can get this on a disenfranchised outsider culture. Think of bikers, veterans only hanging out by themselves, other than outsiders separate and I think that just aggravates it. There’s comfort in that because it’s not the intimacy piece, being vulnerable. You don’t have to do that as much because you’re accepted, you’re known, and you know what to expect.

Magnus Johnson
But I think when the standard becomes no, as warriors, we seek humility, we seek patience, we seek vulnerability when it’s appropriate, we don’t use one ability just to get attention. It’s a tricky thing people do to play a little game, but vulnerability has a point and a place to use authentically. And so I want to create a culture where, instead of this stigma veteran outsider, it’s the warrior fully integrated pursuing family, community, fitness, nutrition, meditation, and self-actualization and self-awareness and that becomes what we aspire to do. So, that’s kind of how I’m creating that.

Magnus Johnson
Some people will quit. Some people won’t like it. Sure. It gets hard. Well, it’s a serious problem, so it’s a serious program. If you come to my fire camp for the weekend and we all feel good, great. But what habits have you take? I mean, maybe I said something nice and you feel better and I feel better, but have you developed a habit? Do you have a tool that you can use on a daily basis to alter your thought patterns, your hormonal responses? That requires time, effort, and repetition. It just does.

David Poole
How do you deal with drug and alcohol abuse in a program like this, because you got to get that out of the way. I mean, it’s-

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. I mean, that’s always the big one, because when you’re engaged in alcoholic behavior, it’s very difficult to do anything else. And most people I think find when they address their addictions, they realize that a lot of their problems were just untreated addiction and, then some people realize that they had other problems that they didn’t know they had.

Magnus Johnson
And so unfortunately, all we can say is like, “Hey, this is not specifically for addiction but it can help with addiction,” like NuCalm helps with addictions, proper supplementation helps with addiction, working out helps with addiction. All these things help with addiction but addiction is outside of my power. The only thing that I’ve seen that scientifically to … I’m not talking about alleviate craving, but to make a fundamental change in an individual, the only thing I’ve come across is either people that go on, develop this profound meditation practice with, what do they call? What’s the word? Sangha. With a community and AA. AA has been the most powerful thing if, again …

Magnus Johnson
Now science and technology and procedures and things are starting to kind of develop new things and I know NuCalm helps with that, with the GABA and the … But the only thing that seemed to work is people that really want to get sober are fully committed to sobriety, and then they engage in a program such as AA or NA and actually do that work. But it’s like, “Oh, I’m going to stop drinking.”

Magnus Johnson
I think two people in all of history have just decided to stop drinking if they’re a full-blown alcoholic, because there’s a significant difference between a heavy drinker and a full-blown alcoholic. Once a cucumber becomes a pickle, it can never be a cucumber again. You cross a line and there’s a change. And so unfortunately, we know a lot about AA. NuCalm helps with it. The other things help, and I have experience with this stuff, but R+R won’t get you sober. It can help you in your path to sobriety, but you don’t do R+R to get sober. You use R+R while you’re engaged in sobriety.

David Poole
Got you.

Magnus Johnson
And maybe that’ll develop in the future but where we are today with the science and the understanding of it. That’s my knowledge of it. That doesn’t mean I know [inaudible 004123].

David Poole
How do you engage the family in the R+R program and some of the other programs you guys have at Mission 22?

Magnus Johnson
I’ll tell you. This has been a huge revelation to me. We need to make a spouses program, because post-traumatic stress, it spreads. Sympathetic post-traumatic stress. I don’t know if you’ve heard that, but that’s a real thing.

Magnus Johnson
And so, there’s a dynamic where a veteran gets better because of all his work and his resources and support from everybody, but the spouses are left behind because they’re not the veterans. So, they’re not the one everyone wants to help, but they’re the ones that have been holding it all together this whole time. And so, there needs to be way more support for the people who support, because they’re, in a lot of ways, kind of elite.

Magnus Johnson
For a while, my wife paid the bills, talked to people, kept things on track, explained things to me because I couldn’t hear or I was having a hard time just being a man, doing what I’m supposed to do. I could work all day. I could do a 15-hour a day’s labor but I found it difficult to talk to the checkout person at Home Depot and then driving traffic and then deal with rude people at the checkout. These things are overwhelming.

Magnus Johnson
And so my wife was sort of … I engaged the world through her, which is not right. And out of love, she was willing to take on that burden and there comes a point in time where I need to take back my responsibility, my role and share that with her and I think a lot of veterans get hung up in these dynamics that we develop because of trauma. And at certain junctures throughout the relationship, we need to renegotiate the roles of our relationships because I’m changing, they’re changing, things are changing. This is a long explanation where the family of a veteran is just as important as the veterans themselves and the likelihood of success of treating a veteran is to treat the entire family or participate with the entire family in a transformational experience.

David Poole
Yeah. You seem like a very serious person. What are you doing for fun that’s just for you?

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. I wrestle with that. So, I like snowboarding. I like running. I did an ultra marathon. I had a bunch more signed up but then they all got canceled. I did one right before the shutdown. I like to rock climb. I liked to lift weights. I like to create things. I like to read. I do have a level of intensity about me. I love it and hate it. It drives me but it also sometimes can pull me.

David Poole
Sure.

Magnus Johnson
And so, I think that I’m at my best and calm and centered outside in the woods, moving through the woods. There’s something about moving and being outside. I’m under less stress under stress.

David Poole
When you grew up in a stressful environment and you had to be resourceful, and like you said, you had to pay attention and you had to grow up fast in that kind of environment. What are you binge watching during the COVID lockdown?

Magnus Johnson
Like TV?

David Poole
Yeah.

Magnus Johnson
Ah, no. No.

David Poole
[crosstalk 004517]. That was a trick question.

Magnus Johnson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do have … So, my wife watches shows, as you know. But then, she’ll get onto my feed like every feed is based on what you watched, it suggests … Mine’s very odd, you know what I mean? There’s weird documentaries and then stupid 80s movies and then things on Gaia and it’s this very weird, odd, fake-

David Poole
Are you a Breakfast Club fan? Is that what you’re watching from the 80s?

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. I’ll watch Waterworld every night. Every night, I watch Waterworld because it brings me comfort. No. I don’t have a show. I’ve had shows. I like Tolkien, Tolkien. I like The Hobbit.

David Poole
Oh, yeah. Sure.

Magnus Johnson
I like that kind of stuff.

David Poole
That’s a lonely three hours. I’m sure your wife is not interested in Hobbits and Middle Earth.

Magnus Johnson
No, but he was friends with Joseph Campbell, I think, or no, was it C.S. Lewis? I don’t know but that whole era, World War One, this great existential change. And so, but yeah, if I’m going to nerd out, it’s definitely going to be Hobbits and Lord of the Rings. I’ll have these mini-Winter depressions and you’ll know because I’ve rewatched The Hobbit.

David Poole
What book are you reading now?

Magnus Johnson
Man! I got a bunch. I’ll get them here. Okay. So, these are the new ones. I kind of went through a batch and now I’m on the new ones. I got The Language of Creation that I’m going to read, The Secret of the Golden Flower, the Cosmic Mystery of Jesus Christ, written by Maximus the Confessor, Embodied Spirituality in a Sacred World, and Biocentrism.

David Poole
Yeah. Light reading, I see.

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. I mean, this stuff, NuCalm, biohacking, thinking, reading, researching, communicating. I love it. I do it all the time. I do it for fun. I do it for free. I do it for pay. It’s what I do with my kids, with my wife, with myself and yeah, I just, I really, really enjoy it. I think for a fun, I might listen to different podcasts or something. I listen to some different shows on a podcast, it’s probably lighter. But yeah, that’s an extra on the books.

David Poole
Have you thought about teaching as a next career path and adjunct professor and talking to young Millennials who don’t have it figured out?

Magnus Johnson
I don’t think they’d want to talk to me. They do and they don’t. It’s kind of weird. Yeah. One of my old professors reached out to me to ask if I wanted to talk to their class of … I think they’re going to get a master’s in social work. I do like teaching. I do like learning. I don’t know if I like it in the context of academia.

David Poole
Yeah. But even if they don’t want to hear from you, they need to hear from you. I would definitely call them back and say, “Yeah. Give me two hours of these punks.”

Magnus Johnson
I talk about the younger people and there’s things that are frustrating, but I think the human spirit’s the same. You put on layers. You put on ideas. You put on cultures. You put on feelings. You put on perspectives. You put on all these different things, but we want to love, be loved. We want to know the truth and we want to do it in community. And I try to focus on that and we all go through whether it’s existentialism or post-modernism or nihilism or … There’s always a new thing, but at the end of the day, we all agree there’s a problem and we’re all looking for different ways to solve it and it’s awkward and violent and confusing, but this spirit of it is I think that. At least that’s what I believe.

David Poole
Excellent. Well, Magnus, I really appreciate your sharing tonight and I am a big fan of your truth and I admire your intensity and I’m glad I’m not opposing you on the battlefield because I wouldn’t trust my chances, but I’d like to open it up for questions from the audience. I think you should run for office, Magnus.

Magnus Johnson
No way!

David Poole
I honestly do.

Magnus Johnson
There’s no way, man.

David Poole
The Ron Kovic Phenomenon. He didn’t win in New York, but he should have.

Magnus Johnson
No.

David Poole
No questions?

Magnus Johnson
No questions.

Cheryl
I have a question.

Magnus Johnson
Oh, okay.

Jim
Magnus-

Magnus Johnson
Hi, Cheryl.

Cheryl
I have a question. Magnus, how often do you use NuCalm?

Magnus Johnson
I don’t use it every day and there’s a … I want to use it every day. I have a desire to use it every day but I like to use all kind of things every day. And so, I purposely try to build up myself as much as possible to not be co-dependent on anything but to use support when I need them.

Magnus Johnson
So, I use NuCalm today because I didn’t get enough sleep but when it comes to just the habit of using NuCalm, I’d rather develop my own meditation practice literally by the sitting and keeping my back straight and trying to meditate, but depending on my stress levels, flareup of TBI, PTSD, or other things that are going on, I’ll increase the use of NuCalm so that I’m not going off the rails, but when I’m on the rails, I don’t want to keep using it and using it and using it because I think I would end up abusing it a little bit. Not sleeping, using it to rest, supplementing my sleep every day. I think that would be my nature. So, I try to hem myself in a little bit.

Cheryl
So, your trust in NuCalm is within a spectrum that you’re sensing now I’ll use it, now I won’t?

Magnus Johnson
No. I think people should use NuCalm every day. I think it’s good for them. My nature is to abuse things, use things all the time, always, instead of developing my own meditation practice and having my own discipline and learning to engage my diaphragm and building this pyramid of calm focus, being able to have my own power, instead of focusing on building that, I will get the best supplements and then I’ll lift more and I have a hard time with moderation. And so that’s my thing and I moderate even with really great things because I feel that’s what I need to do, but with other people that we, with R+R, I want them to use NuCalm as much as possible.

Cheryl
So, could you reiterate what R+R is? Relax and rejuvenate?

Magnus Johnson
Resiliency and recovery. It’s the program I’ve created for veterans-

Cheryl
Nice.

Magnus Johnson
… on Mission 22. So, I use NuCalm and there’s been periods where I’ve used it a lot and there’s been periods where I’ve used a lot of things a lot to get over, through bad spells, but I want to get to a point where I’m creating everything I need with what I believe to be God and my own body and my own breath and that’s my ultimate goal is to just not need a supplement and not need to do these things just to be free.

Magnus Johnson
Now, is that going to be done? I don’t know, but you could argue that all you need a supplementation because the food itself is devoid of minerals and all these different things. You could argue that because of the internet and the computers and all that, that NuCalm is the thing that you need to do all the time because you can’t ever achieve the parasympathetic like you used to be able to do before the world got so advanced. There’s all the different things to figure out. I just know, for me, I want to use things in moderation and I’ll use them more or less depending on what the other outside stimuli is and what’s going on within me, but I try not to get too rigid on being habitual about certain things because I can be … My habits, my rituals can become not the thing that’s freeing me, but the thing that I’m … It inverses, because I’ll get up at 400. I’ll go on a run. I’ll do NuCalm. I’ll take supplements. I’ll do boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But, then, if you alter my regimen, I won’t be nice to you, even though I’m doing the regimen so that I’m nicer.

Cheryl
So, how long have you used NuCalm from beginning till now?

Magnus Johnson
I’ve had it and use it for a couple years. I would say about a couple years, wouldn’t you say, David, that I’ve been working with Jim, yeah? About two years?

David Poole
Yeah. I think nearly three years.

Magnus Johnson
Near three? Yeah.

David Poole
Yeah. Last year was [crosstalk 005554], huh?

Jim
Two years, five months.

Magnus Johnson
Yep. Yep. So, and Jim, I’ve asked you for refills quite often.

Jim
I know. Your intensity and demand for it, just like you spoke to. You kind of know when you need it and you know when you don’t.

Magnus Johnson
Yeah, yeah. But, again, that’s for me. But I think that I would be excited to use NuCalm on a daily basis. I would use it on a daily basis. I just know myself that I need to [crosstalk 005625].

David Poole
I wonder, Magnus, if it’s almost the … From our discussion tonight, it’s clear to me that you need to be involved in the process and believe the process. And when you do NuCalm, you’re along for the ride. You’re kind of a passenger going into your subconscious. When you’re in meditation, it’s all about being involved [crosstalk 005643].

Magnus Johnson
I know I need to achieve that theta, that parasympathetic state and sometimes I can’t do it and sometimes I can, but if I don’t practice on achieving it myself, I never will without something, but if I don’t have the support of NuCalm, I might not be able to achieve it either because I’ve got all these other things so to me, it’s something to do in tandem. This is my personal opinion. For me is use NuCalm and develop a meditation practice and link them together.

Erika
Magnus, we have a couple of newbies on the call and Normina is asking, “Could you share what track you use, how long you NuCalm, what time of day you NuCalm?”

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. I’ve been using Rescue and I NuCalm for what I need. Today, I did it. I got up at 300 in the morning today and I NuCalmed at around noon. And when I came to, it was about half an hour. Sometimes, it’s longer. Sometimes, it’s shorter. I try to do what I need. Around noon is sort of when I need it, pre [inaudible 005810] because I can end up sort of just drinking more coffee, but that’s not good. So, I try to do it around noon so that I’m not relying of stimulants that I’ve got the midday type of thing, but it depends on sort of the flow state I’m in because sometimes, I’m working longer hours and I’ll NuCalm more or sometimes I don’t. Life’s pretty simple. I’m not revving it out. I may be … How do I say this? PTSD and TBI can be really bad and overwhelming and I might need it all the time. I need to get into that state because you can never can achieve it naturally. You don’t sleep. When you sleep, your body’s not regenerating. You’re not reaching deep sleep. So, depending on these other variables is when I’ll increase or decrease the NuCalm, so but if I had to say when I will do, it’ll be around noon and be from 30 minutes to 40 minutes so yeah.

Erika
No, that’s very helpful. And we have a question from Brian. “When you served in stressful environments, what mental tactics did you use to stay present and focused?”

Magnus Johnson
This is crazy. I used to put a circle inside a triangle. That’s what I … So, visually in my mind and no one taught me this and I had no idea now that I’ve done some more esoteric reading or whatever. There’s other stuff out there, but in my mind, in combat, bullets start flying, mouth is dry. Scared, fear, tunnel vision, overwhelmed, I would do this sort of internal … It’s like a video game or fighting jet fighter, like the lock-on. I would put a circle inside a triangle and be, and then this is the seat of my soul. I am here. This is happening. But I must be in this centered position, fully accepting what’s happening and be aware of it and look at it.

Magnus Johnson
So, visually, I would breathe, I would accept, I would recommit my life to the task at hand and I would put the circle in the triangle somewhere in my psyche and then I would fully engage what’s happening. I would let go of my life after affirming it. I don’t know if that’s the right thing to do or not. I’m just saying that’s what I did.

Erika
No. I like how you had an answer right away. You knew exactly where you’re going with that.

Magnus Johnson
I do it rock climbing. I tried to do it before this call. It’s like, “Okay.” There’s just something about my soul, my body are integrated, I’m connected, I’m choosing to be here, I’m accepting it, and I’m participating in it, and I’m not in control of everything, but I’m responsible for my part in it, and I can only do it if I’m conscious, engaged, and committed and I let go of fear.

Erika
Yeah.

Magnus Johnson
Yeah.

Erika
Thanks for that. We have another question from Cheryl. She’s asking, “Have you ever integrated both manual therapies and NuCalm together?” I don’t know if that’s personally or in your R+R [crosstalk 010147].

Magnus Johnson
Manual therapy. Are you a counselor? Are you licensed? Yeah.

Jim
Yes.

Cheryl
Trained ecotherapist?

Magnus Johnson
Yeah.

Cheryl
Or whatever [inaudible 010156] that we used.

Magnus Johnson
So, I’ve gone to school. I got a bachelor’s in behavioral science. A lot of my friends are psychologists and counselors. I have some mentors that are psychologists. And I was thinking about including therapy practices in R+R but I’m not quite sure because, again, therapy and coaching are different but they share a sort of a same kind of path. And so with a veteran, it’s a little tricky.

Magnus Johnson
So, how do I say this? So counselors talking to me, I have a different world view, a different belief system, conditioning and things I feel and the things I’ve trained and the way I’ve lived is not exactly the norm, but there are some counselors who work specifically with veterans who get it, who understand it. They know the language. They’re with you but there’s a lot of counselors that are not. They want to be. They hope to be, but they just don’t really understand, because I mean, very few people do.

Magnus Johnson
And so, it would have to be the right counselor with the right intention, the right training, the right background and the right positioning of who they are as a healer, a good listener, not necessarily a … We got veterans that come to us that are on 20 different medications and they got all those medications from doctors and counselors. They’re strung out, they’re addicted, they need medications for other medications and so on and so forth. And I’m not a doctor. I can’t say what they should or they shouldn’t have those medications. All I know is, when people are eating right, in community, telling the truth, being heard, and with a focus and a goal and support on that journey, they tend to need less medications.

Magnus Johnson
So, I think it would take a mature counselor with a lot of experience with lawyers but a desire to help someone, some veteran not shed their warrior identity but fully integrate it and those are special counselors that are hard to find. So, it’s a longer, complicated answer but … Do you understand, Cheryl, or you have a different vernacular than I do with your background?

Cheryl
Oh, I totally respect the words that came out of your mouth. Not everybody can listen to a veteran. If they’re not trained to respect the unconditional and listen within to be in the present with neutralness, you’re not going to get the same outcome and having worked with NuCalm for the last seven years, as a cranial sacral therapist, there’s a deep respect because my resolve to work with veterans and intensives, I find that veterans don’t want to talk about places they’ve been and things that they’ve seen, but they’re in the present left with where they are today and trying to integrate theirselves back into their family, back into the world, back into day-to-day life, still being warriors.

Cheryl
So, what I’ve experienced with NuCalm is that every day that NuCalm gets used, that that brain gets a nice replenishment of cerebral spinal fluid which is insidious when it comes to healing because whether it had been large explosions or concussions or brain and spinal cord trauma or whatever the loudness was in that audio system that was taken in whether visually or auditorily or impacted physically, that body, mind, and spirit needs a daily bath of cerebral spinal fluid and NuCalm is able to do that in three to five minutes.

Cheryl
So, you can supplement all day long, in my opinion, with many things, but when it comes to the issues being in the tissues, which is what a cranial sacral therapist is trained to listen to, putting the two together is profound because it’s not how much one knows. It’s about how much one cares and from here to there, the bottom line is nobody really cares about what I know. They want to know how they’re going to feel at the other end of it, how they going to function, and what is the longevity of that functioning that’s going to come to heart on a daily basis, because when you been through trauma, it’s … I hear a thousand voices screaming and the loudest one is me.

Cheryl
Well, in that essence of trauma, how do we calm down the me and I found that, as a therapist, I’m trained to work with people with somatic emotional issues and being able to facilitate, feel it in the tissues first of all, not have my own agenda but be listening to your inner physician because that’s the doctor on the table. When I have NuCalm on my client while I’m working, it gets their head out of the way. They don’t have to think about the issues. The issues that are flowing to and fro, back and forth in that library of one’s mind. Your inner physician’s going to throw out what’s ringing the loudest.

Cheryl
When you put NuCalm on, you might be seven ways to Sunday in many different places because that’s where life’s got you. A lot of things are happening, but the old memories that are sitting in the background that are still vibrating very loud that tend to trip people up in the trying to come back to everyday life is the one that needs to be quieted down the most. And NuCalm, from what I have experienced both from concussion, post-traumatic stress, sleep disorders, and addictions, personally and profoundly is it’s the therapists that protects us from the rest of the day when it’s included with manual therapy, that issue that’s underlying that nobody wants to talk about or bring back up again is the one that’s lingering the loudest. It’s the trash that never gets emptied but-

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. What you resist, persists.

Cheryl
Exactly. But underlying that proverbial stink from the trash that hasn’t been emptied is still there on a daily, 24-hour basis. People that, if they’re not smelling it, they’re thinking it. If they’re not thinking it, they feel it. If it doesn’t pass by because that emotional vibration is rolling through the tissues is still vibrating very loudly.

Magnus Johnson
Well, it’s literally in the tissue. I read this book, The Body Keeps the Score, and that’s part of our programs. People can read that but it’s literally the trauma’s in ourselves.

Cheryl
The trauma is in the tissue and the brain is the big boss. NuCalm ultimately seduces that big boss down to calm, to neutral and the longer we’re in neutral, the longer we can use our own conscious thought process to say, “Hmm. You know what? I’m not there now. That was then. I have an ability, I have control.” So whether it be addiction or sleep disorders or what have you, NuCalm is that daily dose of this is what you need now because it’s a cumulative and that brain and the glial cells, the neurons and the dendrites are being supplemented with cerebral spinal fluid which is what ends up getting compressed through a huge explosion or an intermittent moment of [inaudible 011028] that happens and every time you use NuCalm, it’s like it just initiates that subtle healing profoundly and it’s a cumulative.

Cheryl
So, with all due respect, your answer was awesome, absolutely awesome. You’re right. Not just anybody can sit down and put their hands on somebody and say, “Oh, well. I can fix this.” It’s not about that. But working with the brain and being able to … and I look at NuCalm as an amazing therapist. As a cranial sacral therapist studying brain and spinal cord trauma, you put NuCalm day to day back to [inaudible 011112] hands on, hands off, and I’m doing the same, but NuCalm is an amazing helper that facilitates that place that says, “You know what? Maybe I didn’t want to sit here and talk about that with my therapist but in my mind’s eye, I’m able to actually feel it, see the flashback while I’m under NuCalm but yet I know I’m safe. I was there then but I’m here now.” And to be able to look at that impact, that sound, that whether it has a shape, a color, an emotion, that vibration to feel it drop down and be facilitated more into neutral helps everybody take that big deep breath and those cells come together back a little bit more to where they were beforehand, allowing everybody to think better, sleep better, do better and to actually just kind of reconnect with the place within themselves that goes, “I’m not there now but I was there then and it felt like that, so what can I do now?”

Cheryl
So, with a deep respect, I was just wondering if your program was recognizing the benefits between NuCalm, manual therapies, because you have spoken of many different, whether it be nutrition supplements or whatnot, to understand the facilitation between a highly trained cranial sacral therapist that works with brain and spinal cord trauma and understands that the issues are in the tissues alongside with NuCalm to help maintain and lock in that forward strength, that foundational build to refocus, to redirect, continue on, feeling safe and strong within yourself.

Magnus Johnson
The potential to create an integrated system that uses tech, different modalities, counseling, coaching, all these … The potential to create this journey, this transformational journey over time with different healers and mentors, practitioners at different points. There’s a lot of potential for that. I can’t scale those people yet, the practitioners at what you just spoke about but with enough funding, enough traction, enough support, enough evidence, then I can.

Magnus Johnson
So, we’re not there yet but once the data, the quantitative and qualitative datas there and people are excited about it and then they want to get a thumbprint on it, that’ll change and there’ll be more to share and more room and more opportunity and more financing and there’ll be more excitement about it. So, it’s not a no. It’s a not yet.

Cheryl
I have a lot of information to add to that. Not yet, but that’s for another day.

Erika Robinson
We had a question from [Chi 01142e] and Chi, feel free to come on if you want to ask.

Chi
Yep. Hi, Magnus. What advice would you give to a new NuCalm user to build that routine and habit especially in a time crunch society like this?

Magnus Johnson
I would advise 14 days in a row. Get a couple weeks, establish a base and get and 14 days in a row. And then I would advise to look at your stress, look at your deep sleep, look at your REM sleep, and get excited about reducing stress and increasing sleep.

Magnus Johnson
So, when I quit smoking, it wasn’t because I was worried about the health consequences. It’s because I got excited about the health benefits. So, I would suggest two weeks solid, right out the gate, and then what we just had with Cheryl. Use as much as you can afford, use as much as you need.

Magnus Johnson
I kind of have this thing inside of me where I feel what I need, like, “Okay. I need more of this.” I’m starting to … I can feel it when I get a big cortisol dump or I can feel it when I’m like, “Okay. I’ve engaged these other systems. I’m going to pay for that,” if I’m too resentful or I get angry, or I’ll lap … I call it flooding.

Magnus Johnson
So, based on what’s your intention? Is it for performance, is it for restoration, is it for trauma, is it for addiction? Are you trying to just perform better at work. So, there’s a lot of different variables but I think it would be safe and prudent and make sense to say to do, start out and establish a habit for two weeks to a month to actually see and notice and measure the changes. That’s my own personal thing, though but I’m sure David and Jim have the science behind what they’ve discovered.

David Poole
No. What [inaudible 011638] Magnus, is if you do it every day for 10 years, you’ll be in good shape.

Magnus Johnson
Right. There you go.

Jim
That’s be a [crosstalk 011643].

David Poole
That’s our science. I don’t know.

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. Well, it’s like how much should you meditate? All the time. How long should you stay in the parasympathetic? It’s like as much as you need to. But I would say a good thing is develop a 14-day to 30-day base, so then you have something to compare and contrast to. That would be my answer. That’s what I’m … The wellness coordinator for our program is requesting that veterans that do our program do a 14-day run initially.

Chi
Thank you Magnus. I’m asking questions mainly because I’m from Singapore. So, in these societies, the people don’t request for support or help when they are under stress. Even though tremendous stress. So, psychiatrists … We don’t go to see psychiatrists. We don’t go to see counselor. We don’t want to see psychologist. Those are out.

Chi
So, even if people use NuCalm, they need to use in private. Using it often and tell people that, “I’m on NuCalm, I have to manage my stress,” is a no-no. So, even 14 days, you will get hard to establish because they can only do it before they go to work or after they come back to work. So, that is a societies, culture perspective that … I can still encourage people to start in the morning, to-

Magnus Johnson
Sure.

Chi
… manage their day is hidden.

Magnus Johnson
I mean, like I said in the beginning of this, what we’re doing, my dad is Welsh. He was in after World War Two, growing up in England and Wales. And that culture, at that time, it was a stiff upper lip, you know what I mean? There’s no crime. There’s no special treatment. None of that and I don’t know what it’s like in Singapore but I can relate to that cultural, like we don’t ask for help. We don’t show weakness. And I lived it and I ended up getting PTSD and TBI and having all these other bad habits because I don’t need help. And so, at my best with what I believe, I ended up being to the point where I had to have a ton of help. So, I get it, I think. I know what it’s like for me and my dad in that culture we came from and it’s tough, because if you show weakness, they’ll eat you up. At least I don’t know where you were, but when I was a kid growing up in Wales with my dad and the way they were. If I was an American and I was being a bit posh or I showed any weakness they would kick my butt relentlessly. Yeah. I mean, I’m sure it’s different today but this was when I was a kid.

Magnus Johnson
So, I think I feel what you’re saying. Yeah, and that’s a whole different thing with the cultural stuff, but maybe get in the bathroom and get in the 20-minute NuCalm session at lunch or something. But I mean you got to do what you got to do to kind of turn the corner. Don’t let them see any weakness and then, once you’ve got around, once you roll, then that weakness can become a strength, maybe, depending on the culture and what’s going on, but that’s definitely something that’s real. At least it was real in my life. Same thing in the military, back when I was in the military. You didn’t talk about PTSD. You don’t do these type of … “Okay. Your non-mission essential. Good job.”

Magnus Johnson
Things are different today. Maybe they’ve gone too far the other way today. Maybe it’s good to talk and it’s good to empathize, but sometimes we need to have a little bit of a standard. So, there’s a balance there, but that cultural stuff, that belief, that idea that I don’t ask for help and we’re not weak. That actually made it worse in the long run. It was a deeper hole to dig out of. I don’t regret it. I’m proud of who I am and where I’m from but there’s pros and cons.

Chi
Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate. I didn’t did it in the bathroom, but I actually did it in the car. I have to [crosstalk 012117].

Magnus Johnson
Maybe the car. Yeah.

Chi
I drive to the lowest of the basements, car parks and I would just-

Magnus Johnson
Yeah!

Chi
… did it in the cars to get myself ready to go back to all the presentations.

Magnus Johnson
Yeah. I mean, it’s funny. We’re all pretending that we’re all super tough but we’re all … There’s a bunch of cars down there in the basement, you know what I mean? I mean, in the military, I used to go into the toilet, just to have a moment alone. I mean, we’re talking in the desert porta potties, plastic. The suns beating down on it all day. It stinks, obviously, because a military’s using it for a bathroom, but I would go in there just for a minute to a moment’s peace and we need that. So, you need to find it where you can get it and I think, at least for me, it’s worth risking a little bit of people making fun of me or whatever so that I can actually enjoy my life, because it goes by so fast. But again, I don’t know your culture, but that was my culture.

Chi
Thank you for sharing.

David Poole
Yeah. I think that’s a wrap. Well, Magnus, appreciate the time tonight. It was really remarkable. Appreciate what you’re doing, appreciate all you’ve done, and I’m looking forward to what you’re doing next.