Science Has NuCalm’s Back with Dr. Hu

Today’s guest, Dr. Xiaoyan Hu is leading the research on the use of NuCalm with various populations in China. From the benefits of NuCalm in the elderly, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s as well as children with Autism or ADHD.

Tune in for a fascinating discussion on the results she has been seeing as well as how her NuCalm business is growing.

 

“I don’t know how you manage that in the U.S., but here, if you see a teenager is very anxious, the parents will say ‘No! he is fine, it’s normal to have stress.’ So that will be an argument and we’ll say OK, let’s help your child to get better grades, to get to a better school, a better college. And that’s exactly what they need.” — Xiaoyan Dr. Hu

 

Listen to This Is NuCalm on Apple & Spotify!

 

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu graduated from the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences & Peking Union Medical College, majoring in Biochemistry and Molecular Neurobiology. During her PhD, Dr. Hu took neuroscience as her lifelong research direction. To provide better service for the community, Dr. Hu studied social services, and studied nutrition, natural medicine, sociology, psychology, and neuro-linguistic programming. Due to this special experience, Dr. Hu made many friends in natural medicine and other fields which laid the groundwork for her later work in China.



 

Key Takeaways

 

[1:00] David welcomes Dr. Hu and invites her to share her life story and what brought her to dedicate her life to others in such a powerful way, from a childhood head injury that left her unable to walk to a Ph.D. and becoming an instructor at Cornell Medical College.

 

[8:38] Dr. Hu shares the work she has been doing in order to help the people ever since moving back to China, from non-profits to launching businesses to investing in education and since this year, NuCalm!

 

[12:04] How often does Dr. Hu use NuCalm? She shares all of the technologies and practices she surveyed before finding NuCalm and what it offered that all the others didn’t.

 

[17:39] David shares some striking practices he saw when he visited China, the large groups of elderly people training together! He asks Dr. Hu what young people do for optimal health.

 

[18:40] Dr. Hu shares an overview of the vast research projects she has been undertaking with NuCalm around Alzheimers and Parkinsons, as well as the especially interesting results she has been seeing with children with Autism and ADHD.

 

[26:15] Dr. Hu is building an entire stress management and depression management system around NuCalm since there is no similar offering in China currently. She shares a bit about the situation with teenage anxiety and depression and how her team is tackling the issues.

 

[31:32] Going the medical route — large hospital support, government support — is how Dr. Hu is gaining trust from the market and growing her business; she touches on what she sees in the future.

 

[35:34] Pharmacology isn’t the problem in China — like in the U.S. — it’s diagnosis! Dr. Hu shares her thoughts on traditional Chinese medicine.

 

[40:10] Dr. Hu shares her favorite things to do both in the U.S. and in China! She also talks about her 16,000 students, where they come from, and how they came to find her.

 

[45:16] What is Dr. Hu’s role with NuCalm?

 

[48:22] Tips for people who are resistant to fully relaxing?

 

[51:10] What about people with pacemakers?

 

[52:28] How much does Dr. Hu sleep now that she uses NuCalm?

 

[53:00] How does the cultural difference between East and West impact the adoption of NuCalm?

 

[55:28] Can NuCalm help with moderate OCD?

 

[55:46] What about volume while doing NuCalm?

 

[57:22] Favorite NuCalm track?

 

[57:37] Why is pericardium 6 the chosen point?

 

[59:15] When using Airpods, do I need to use both pods?

 

[1:01:20] Can you use bone conduction headphones instead of NuCalm?

 

[1:01:40] What growth is expected for China?

 

[1:05:12] What were Dr. Hu’s most challenging cases?

 

[1:07:56] What is your experience working with seniors 75 years old and older?

 

[1:10:15] David thanks Dr. Hu for sharing her international knowledge and expertise and signs off until next time.

 

This is NuCalm, the show for those looking to improve sleep quality, manage stress, and boost recovery. Brought to you by Solace Lifesciences, the makers of NuCalm, the world’s only patented and proven neuroscience technology that works within minutes, without drugs, every time! In over one million medical sessions, NuCalm has helped men and women around the world.

 

NuCalm: stress relief for the way we live today, technology to help you disconnect.


Full Transcript 

 

David Poole
Tonight it is a great pleasure of mine to introduce our mastermind participants to Dr. Hu. We became acquainted with Dr. Hu, honestly it was about this time last year. It was about a year ago. We went to Beijing the invitation of Dr. Hu, a generous invitation last year, to participate in one of her annual scientific platforms or discussions with worldwide experts. We learned a lot. It was a really amazing group of people. It was really generous of her to invite us, but also really beneficial for us to be there. And then we got to spend some quality time with Dr. Hu and her team. And from there the birth of a partnership. We’ve never had a partner internationally in 18 years of the company. We’ve never had a licensing agreement with anybody.

David Poole
There’s a lot of things we’ve done with Dr. Hu for the first time, because we trust her. But more importantly in Dr. Hu we see a reflection of ourselves. When we hear her story tonight is, there’s very few people that are dedicated and have a sense of purpose and determination in the world than someone like Dr. Hu. And a lot of the people we’ve talked to on these calls, Dan Selene, a few weeks ago, they have that sense of purpose. And a lot of it’s driven around their own internal inspiration. Dr. Hu is about serving other people. And once we understood that, realize that, saw the impact she was having on the population there, on the other scientists who would give up a week of their life to be there and participate.

David Poole
It was a very incredible experience for us. And it’s been a real blessing. And she’s responsible for bringing our tech and the spirit of NuCalm to a big population in China. So tonight with that I’d like to start with, thank you, Dr. Hu for joining us. I know it’s early for you. Why don’t we start with Dr. Hu. First, give us your Chinese name. I never want to bastardize it because I’ve heard people say it the wrong way and I always get insecure about it. But it’s a beautiful name. So tell us your name first.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Okay. Hu Xiaoyan. You know in Chinese name you have your last name first. Hu is my last name and Xiaoyan is my first name.

David Poole
Excellent. Xiaoyan, I’ve been calling your doctor for a year, so I didn’t know that your name was Xiaoyan. So talk to us about your history as a child, your path to the mission you’re on, when you discovered that this was going to be something you would spend your life doing and why you do what you do. I think that’s a great place to start.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Okay. I was raised up by my grandparents and that’s why I was very, very close to elderly people. And my dream when I was in primary school, elementary school, was to build a house for the old people so that no people, especially seniors, no senior people will be abundant or will not be taken care of. That’s my dream. And I have never thought about being a scientist or doing something else. And also the biggest challenge for me was I got a very serious head trauma when I was five. So I had a very different child life compared to others. I couldn’t even stand on my own, not much. That’s why I said maybe that’s why I get so interesting with the brain, because my brain is not that good from a very, very young age. And then I got to school, and study has always been very easy for me.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
So I became the head of the class and I went to university, college and then I went to graduate school. And then I realized I want to do something more. Still my house was not good at that time. I think I was giving the opportunity to go to school. That means a huge responsibility. To me doctor means you have more responsibility than others for the country or for the whole society. And then after I got my PhD, very lucky came to US for medical staff training and then become a research scientist and then went to Cornell medical college, becoming an instructor there. All the journey was safe to most other Chinese scientist who went to US but what made it different was that maybe because my experience when I was a child I just wanted to do more.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
So I started to become a volunteer the second year I went to US. And I started my own nonprofit organization and then started to work for the Chinese community. During that experience I started to work with many non-profit organization in US. I started to study in nutrition, naturopathic energy medicine, all that other stuff in US. Just want to help more because as a research scientist I have my own patent invention, a medication for Alzheimer’s disease. But I just found I couldn’t help people directly, which made me feel very weak. I want to help more. Everyday when I went to the community to be with them and then I said, “How can I help them now not 10 years later?” And when I take their group leader position for Alzheimer’s patients and their family members I realized that’s something I want to do.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
So every year when I came back to China, I [inaudible 000618] lots of seminars to help people understand what’s going on in their world and what research has been done in US already so that people can catch up the most updated information. And instead of being out of date. That is three and a half year ago, I decided to come back to China, to devote my 100% time to the Chinese people. The reason was that I have a lot of friends and most of my colleagues are in US. But in China, if we just come back and [inaudible 000656], it doesn’t doesn’t do much. It’s like you are with it. You cannot change anything here. So I decided to come back to China.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
I think maybe just destiny. To simply say, it’s just destiny. Maybe I was picked up to do this. I don’t know. I just felt in my heart.

David Poole
No, we’re glad you were. So what do you do today? The last three and a half years since you’ve been back and dedicated to the cause of helping the Chinese people, what are you doing now?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Doing now? Maybe two things and education. Three, a half years ago when I came back to China, I have been doing, before that, before I made that movement, I have been thinking about what I can do. And I’m just a very regular person. I just want to go. And I had done a lot of things. The advantage I have is that I know many different fields. I have been in research, in clinic, in being a consultant for investment bank. I know business. I started business in US also. I know the law and I also very, very familiar with these nonprofit organization. But what I truly different from other professionals is that I love education.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
I can do very well. I can tell what people need. I can share the information I want to share with them in the form that we can pick, [inaudible 000849] is in community with the people who do not understand science at all or to the clinicians or to the scientist. So maybe there’s something I can do. That’s why I chose to do education the first day I came back to China. I established project called NIES. N-I-E-S, which was supported by the Chinese government. And we have done pretty well. And without any financial interest from any companies, because I want us to be objective. We do not want to stand up for any like food industry or something like that. So that’s my passion.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
And the international forum, you and Jim and [Dr. Sandocane 000940] was also hosted by NIES. We’re the only host. The other thing I have been doing this year is NuCalm. And I told all my students. And now we have 16,000 students. I told my student that this year we will focus on stress management system and we will do from education, including public education and professional training. From education to NuCalm clinic and research and also one-on-one consultation set up. So we will do a series of things just to make sure NuCalm can land in China correctly. I know how much effort you guys have put into NuCalm, and I really respect that. And to show my respect is that to be very careful and very culturious to give a [inaudible 001041] protection, I can give two things education and NuCalm.

David Poole
So talk to us doctor about your experiences with NuCalm. I know that you’re a Type A and you work really hard and you don’t give yourself a break. How many times have you done NuCalm in the last year? We’ll start there.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Oh, last year. In fact before I met you and Jim, I think late October last year, I didn’t do that much. Maybe twice per week. I feel I’m always busy but after I met you two in person, I just realized I can not do things like this. So I started to do everyday. So in the last, let’s say, eight months, every day and I benefit a lot.

David Poole
And what about your students? I know that you’ve had a lot of good positive feedback when you were evaluating NuCalm. NuCalm, wasn’t a no brainer to you. This wasn’t, “Oh, wow. This is exactly what I’m looking for.” You were looking for other technologies and techniques to help with stress management. What other technologies were you’re looking at?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
In fact, and before I came back to China. And I’m personally, very into mind body medicine, I started NLP hypnotherapy and CBT and biofeedback and also music therapy and aroma therapy, all those things in US. And when I came back to China, I realized, “Okay, in order to help people, I need to train someone to become an expert or consultant or coach, at least coach in that field so that they can help people.” But the thing is that how easy can that be? It’s very hard. And for the doctors, they’re super busy. And even if I want to train them it takes a lot of time, they cannot do that. For others like nutritionist psychology center or just psychology consultants, they do not have a very strong background in biology or, let me see, medicine. So it’s hard to train them as well.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
When I realized I have been searching [inaudible 001308], in fact, last year before I met NuCalm, I have tested so many different instrument and systems, none match my criteria for the go-to for China, because in my opinion it has to be safe and easy to use and also need to be very effective. When people will say, “Oh, it’s effective.” It’s not good enough. In China, we have a lot of people, if it takes months to see a result or improvement people do not have that patience. They need to be very effective, especially in certain field. If someone has insomnia and they are taking medication, they want to get help from you. And you say, “Okay, try this, maybe one month you will see a difference.” They will ignore directly. So I don’t want to try that.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
But if you can tell them exactly what they are going to expect based on the mechanism we understand about what’s going on in their body. Like, if someone is taking [inaudible 001426] like medication, obviously, it works on the [inaudible 001431] receptor. And if that works for him and we are pretty sure in other bio signal processing discs should work for them. So we started to work from that and go that it has to be effective, very effective. And another thing is that it can be used by professionals. There’s a difference between professionals and regular people because professionals they have some idea. That’s why we separate people.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Like, the NuCalm version we have in China now you can use it by yourself and it will not hurt you. We have a standard procedure. But if you have a one-on-one consultation with the house professionals you will expect a better result. So in that case, we image NuCalm as a professional tool. So in that way, we found basically something we need. Because for all the psychological therapy methods, you truly need people. And it takes a lot of effort. And in the future, I believe technology will replace human being in certain ways. And we should see that they’re professionals we train so hard and to do more dedicated things, not just the regular.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
We wish NuCalm can help 80% of people just by itself and another 20% in the hard case of complicated cases, we can help them with our professionals. I can not find something that can compare to NuCalm, very honest. I have been looking for it.

David Poole
So doctor, can we talk for a minute about culturally? I remember when I was there, I was there for a week and every night I’d go for a walk and every night I’d see gatherings of older people doing breathing exercises, Tai-Chi in mass. I mean, I’m talking about hundreds of people in parking lots doing these exercises. And the same thing was happening in the morning. I didn’t see any young people. What are the young people do to manage stress and to… Have they adopted those or abandoned those kinds of techniques and methodologies?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Yeah. For young people, really, most of them just stay at home, watch TV, play games. Most of them.

David Poole
Sounds familiar. We started those bad habits here and passed them on to you sadly. I’m sorry about that. So let’s talk for a minute about… I know when we talk and you get really excited when you give me an update it’s usually an hour long, you don’t take a breath and it’s about the research you’re doing and the astounding results you’re seeing. Can you share with us some of the case studies you’ve been working on?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
And I told you that they’re two things I have been working on, one is education and another is NuCalm. For education, we have already hosted three international forums, which help us gain a very good reputation in three different groups of people. One is ASD, Autism. The second is Alzheimer’s. And third is ADHD group. And we have all those families with us already. So when we first introduced NuCalm to China, my idea is to help them first. They already learned how to take care of their family members through dietary intervention, through environmental medicine.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
But we want NuCalm to be another tool for those families. I think NuCalm is a great tool for whole family stress management. And when we introduced NuCalm to them, which is pretty different from what’s going on in US. And I know but from the website of NuCalm.com and you can not find that much information about [inaudible 001845] especially the new special [inaudible 001849]. And the one we use NuCalm to help all the state children we found amazing results. Like one, is for the emotion behavior sleep problems, it helps them in very short periods of time. And the parents can see the difference for the Autism.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
And after two weeks usually, the children start to show improvement in social skills, in their language skills. In order to make it more productive we ask the parents because parents are our students as well. We ask them not to change all the parameters. So that they just do NuCalm and during these month to see what’s going to happen. To not change the guide, to not add any extra exercise, to not do any other things. So we are pretty sure it can help those child to get better sleep, control their emotions [inaudible 001957] better and improve their language and social skills in one month, which is pretty amazing.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
And at the same time, I think that’s expected play. But when we see the result, we still are very, very, very happy. And we ask the parents to do the NuCalm at the same time because for those families, the parents are so anxious and [inaudible 002028] fluctuation of emotion, very strong emotion. So when parents start to have a stable emotion, they sleep better and their children started to change. The reason we know that because some children are so sensitive to the [inaudible 002048], to the eye mask, because if you touch them, they’re very, very sensitive. So we can not put NuCalm on them.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
And for those family, we have done a couple of them. And we ask the parents to use it. But when we see that parents change then the children did not use NuCalm yet. So in that case, if they showed us, we have many ways to apply NuCalm to the family oriented stress management or house management. And that’s one thing. Another is for Alzheimer, Hutchinson, NuCalm can definitely help them sleep and also when the sleep already increase, especially if they did not get up that many times at night, and then they reduce the risk to hurt themselves. And also during the daytime, they will be more active and their memories, their combination function start to be improved, especially for Parkinson’s.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
We are going to work with the hospital to do a do a [inaudible 002200] clinical trial to see how exactly it helps Parkinson’s disease, the patients, because we noticed their sleeping is reducing. The [inaudible 002215] or the way they walk start to change. Very amazing. Other things are for the [inaudible 002222] or accurate stress response And for hyperthyroid problems. It’s just amazing. For those people, I have a student who is leading a group of people that are using non drug intervention massage to help [inaudible 002245]. It’s a huge population in China. Before we used [inaudible 002249] intervention we had Dr. Gersh came last year and we have all the seven staff to help them. It worked pretty well.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
But then we found if we add stress management into it, it can be faster. And also for those people who don’t show an implement based the medication and they want to try, but they do not want to try that intervention and they start to use NuCalm, usually one to two weeks they start to say their anxiety level go down and many other symptoms have started to reduce. So we are going to work with different hospitals. Now, we have four hospitals that we are work on four different fields. And for addiction, remember I told you that we are going to work with Gansu province. And they have eight huge place, I don’t know [inaudible 002353], a places that host people, each of them have one to 2000 people in and they will stay there for two years, there many things we can do.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
And the government spent a lot amount of money to help them to quit drugs but it doesn’t work that well. And even one province start to use aroma therapy. Let’s test these measures but it won’t work, but I believe NuCalm can work. We will start from the beginning of where we cut off the drug to see how it can help to reduce the symptom or relieve some sleep problem during the first stage of their training, I will call them training. And then we have a professor who is going to host the whole project. Once Gansu province finish the project it will be an example for all the province to follow. This is how we do things here. You only need to set up one example and then others will follow.

David Poole
Wow. What are your goals for this year, Dr. Hu with not just NuCalm, but with your entire team? What do you hope to achieve this year?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Okay. So this year, first, for the stress management is a blue ocean here in China. Not much information, no reading books, not many solutions. And NuCalm is very, very special. So we will use NuCalm as a tool to build a whole stress management system. And we want the professionals who come to these field later can see how we do things, no matter [inaudible 002553]. I believe there are many other good products on the market, but we need a rule. We want to be the one who set up their standard to show, “Okay. Do not just treat on people.” And if you say your method works okay, compared to NuCalm and if you say you can help people with depression, okay, what’s the clinical criteria and what’s an assessment we are going to use? What kind of parameters we should look at even it’s biomedical or imaging?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
We want to set up the standard for some specific field. And if we do that and stress management field in China will grow very fast and also in the correct way. Otherwise, there’ll be many people using the same term in very different ways and the public will feel very confused. What exactly should we believe? And why should I believe you? Why you said is correct and why others doesn’t work? We want to use the same standard for all the people. And the NuCalm will be one to show others what our scientific tool should look like. And also this October, we will have the force international forum and the theme will be depression. That’s huge. That’s huge in China now. I don’t know the number, but based on the news in China, they said 90 leading people with depression, I don’t even know where they are.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
And now we are working with the biggest depression association here. The number they have is 16,000. So maybe there’s a lot of things we can do to help depression. We can focus on that field this year as well.

David Poole
What about teenage anxiety and stress? Are you guys going to focus on that at all?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Yes. And in fact, we already have two students who focus on, one is for the… It’s getting dark. Teenager depression and Like Kiki is one of my friend. She is working on teenager depression, and we found a serious problem here because the teenager is one who has a problem, but they do not have the right to make a decision for himself or for herself. So we are tying to change the situation here first, like get all the family members together and then start to introduce NuCalm to them. And also based on the investigation you asked and the FDA already gave the back box warning and therefore those teenagers they cannot, or they need to be very, very careful of using drugs and SSRI, antidepressant drugs.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
So it gives us opportunity to introduce NuCalm to them to help them. But now we are focusing on help them change some symptoms like, their appetite and sleep, their emotion. We have already created some case studies. Pretty impressive. And for a teenager anxiety, we work with their school who will focus on how NuCalm increase or increase their grades, make sure they can get very good grades in the exam. Otherwise, it’s hard to manage the anxiety in the teenager. I don’t know how you manage that in US, but here if you see a teenager is very anxious, the parents will say, “No, he’s fine. It’s normal to have stress.” So there’ll be argument. And we say, “Okay, let’s help your child to get better grades, get to a better school, get to a better college.” “That’s exactly what I need.” We can go from there.

David Poole
It’s interesting watching you grow the business. So it seems to me, you’re doing things around defining the categories, going the medical route. Getting the blessings from top hospitals, top government officials, and that’s how you build trust with your target market. In the US, it’s more of a, you buy media heads and you broadcast, it’s a shotgun approach and then it’s a big reach, a big funnel. It’s less about trust and more about trial and error, I think. It’s been really fascinating watching you guys grow so quickly. coming up with a bunch of case studies, we just touched on a few. Where do you see the business going in the next couple of years? What are your goals personally?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Personally, I think that’s our team goal. We had a 10 year goal when we first set up, we wanted to do one mental illness per year. So we have already done three and we will keep doing that. And this year is depression, next year anxiety. And then we go to bipolar. So for those specific mental illnesses we’ll be the first one to introduce systematic intervention, especially non-medication into non drug intervention to China. So by doing that we build our reputation and gain our credit in both common side and professional side. So that’s our basic. And for NuCalm, and this year is our first time to introduce this wonderful system to Chinese people. And we will do the clinical trial. We will do some research. We will start to work with mass media here to let more people know there’s action.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
And then from next year, that’ll be fast growing period because after these years in the national forum, and I believe more and more people will realize how important stress is and how terrible it is to live with a huge stress and from no know to know something, very easy. And it’s very, very good for a large population like China. And that’s why we want to keep our leadership in this field so that more people can follow us. And we have that confidence. When you say I work as [inaudible 003312] because I have the motivation. In China, we have a saying, like, [foreign language 003319]. That means, you are making a great product like NuCalm.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
And others may say, “Oh, that’s a good opportunity.” They will copy you. They want to try to take the shortcut. They may ruin the whole market because the quality of all the stuff they have is not as good as NuCalm. But people will say, “Oh, it doesn’t work. Something like this doesn’t work.” In order to avoid that situation we have to go as fast as we can. And also that’s why I work with the government and also their top hospitals here, because I do not want to give other people these kinds of opportunity to do wrong things. When they say how strong your background is then they will say, “Okay, do not touch the field theory.” Because they have pretty good power in this field.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
So maybe that’s a different strategy in US and China. In China, things can go very fast and with all the foundations you guys have built in the last 17 and 18 years, I have confidence that we can do pretty well here.

David Poole
How pervasive is Pharma over there?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
What?

David Poole
How pervasive is Pharma, so drugs for medicating kids and medicating adults and depression, anxiety. In the US it’s at a ridiculous amount. It’s bad news. But what’s happening in China?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
In China, it’s under diagnosed. It’s not [inaudible 003508]. They’re even not diagnosed. That’s the situation. And for people who, like for a child or for teenager often they are diagnosed and they will get medication like, 20 or 30 years ago in US.

David Poole
Let’s switch gears for just a moment doctor and talk a little bit about traditional Chinese medicine. We have discussions about that on and off. Can you talk a little about what that does? I know that you’re trying to bring it back. And that was a topic of discussion at the last international forum but what is it? What is traditional Chinese medicine and how does it work, generally?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Traditional Chinese medicine in fact to me is a philosophy. It’s not like science. It’s a different field. And traditional Chinese medicine, it’s very powerful. And we have a lot of masters. I can manage a lot of recipes and from our ancestors, but during in the last 100 years we didn’t make much progress and that we are losing. And the major reason in my opinion is that people in it do not want to open their mind. They just keep saying, “Okay, there’s no way for us to purify or to recognize what’s truly in it. There’s no way for us to standardize it.” So we just say it’s impossible. When we say it’s impossible then nothing will happen.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
I have two missions when I came back to China. [inaudible 003650] the support of my mentor. And one is to introduce the most updated information from the world to China in the house management field like nutritional medicine, environmental medicine and mind, body medicine. And another thing is that to bring Chinese traditional medicine to the world and I’m working on it. And I found that’s very interesting. It takes another strategy. If you tell them we should do this, we should be open-minded, we should use scientific medicine to… Like, the high throughput message, to find out the way to standardize our old recipe so that we can make it on a larger scale. It’s impossible.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
So from 2018, I started to introduce international experts who are Americans, to come to China to tell Chinese traditional medicine doctors what they are doing. They are doing exactly what I just recommended. So it started to change, but it takes time and our masters are getting old and old. So I hope I can do a little bit faster, but there’s our gap, the government truly wants something [inaudible 003818]. But there are people who are working in these field, like the doctors. They’re a little bit more conservative. They do want to… Like, they will tell you, “I have a recipe who can help hypertension [inaudible 003833] and how powerful it is and you will see a lot of patients and benefit from him.” And then I said, “Okay. Now, how about we work together to make it go on large scale so that more people can benefit from it?” He said, “Hmm, I do not want to give you my recipe.” I said, “Okay.” So that’s the-

David Poole
It’s a trust factor. Yeah, sure. Anything like that is hard to scale. There’s no doubt. That’ll be a very challenging exercise. Let’s pivot to some personal stuff. What do you get excited about personally Dr. Hu? When you get to do something fun, what would that be?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
In fact in US I have done a lot of things interesting. Like, I like driving a lot. In 2015, I just drove nine hours per day. And in continuously 11 days from Las Vegas to Yellowstone and come back with different path. I want to see the nature. But to me, sky, anything relating to sky is amazing. And I like skydiving. I like hot ballooning but when I come back to China the only thing, the only fun I have is working because I find this very, very interesting. Maybe I have done what I like already. Car racing, anything related to speed is very exciting to me.

David Poole
Yeah, me too. We’ll get you a motorcycle next year when we come back to China.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Sure.

David Poole
So tell us a little bit about your students and your student base and how your tracks, I mean, 16,000 students is pretty remarkable. How do you educate them? What’s the platform you use? What are they attracted to in your content?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Okay. There are many different platforms we have been using, but the major one we use is called [inaudible 004037]. It’s a very good starting and learning center platform in China. And we use it because they are very, very serious platform and then all students can find all our courses and classes on that platform. And from there, they will join our Beta group, it’s like a Facebook group in US. And in the Beta group I have assistants which are some of my students and they will be there to serve all the people, all the other students everyday.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
So we have very, very high, interactive activities every day. So if I want to announce something like, I want to tell them, “We will have the NuCalm book coming next week and we will do the pre-sale or we will have our international forum and instead of [inaudible 004139] October [inaudible 004141] we will do the preregister.’ And I just need to tell 10 people, which is my co-team member that I do not need to do anything else. So it’s so close. And if they want to find me and very easy as well they can go through WeChat and I can use most of my time very effectively just by working with 10 people.

David Poole
Wow. And your reach is 16,000 from that [inaudible 004211]?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Yeah.

David Poole
Yeah. That’s unbelievable. The magnitude of population you have in China is hard to comprehend from us, I mean, for me personally. Well, excellent. Thank you so much, Dr. Hu. I’m going to open up to some questions. That was really nice. That was really nice for you to get up this morning and spend time with us of course. It’s nice to see you again. We usually do WeChat and it’s just a dumb digital box where I can see you every day. I think we’ve some questions here.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Okay.

David Poole
We’ve got a comment from Martin. I’m impressed with Dr. Hu already within her first few minutes of speaking, what a wonderful person she is and so focused on helping others. That’s absolutely true. It’s interesting. I love technology that connects people. I love air travel, where you can get on a plane and go halfway around the world and meet people. And people are pretty similar everywhere you go. And when you meet someone special and talented and driven it sticks. So this is one of those relationships. And I told this to Dr. Hu when we first met. Our board of directors, our business advisor says, “Don’t bother with China, they’re really difficult to work with. They’re going to steal your stuff.” Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was always negative.

David Poole
They’ve never met you. They didn’t have the relationship with you. And when I came back, I didn’t listen. I said, “Shut the hell up. Here’s what we’re going to do. Here is why, and you don’t know Dr. Hu. We found somebody that’s just like us and is more determined.” And as a bigger challenge, we’re trying to help 300 million people in the US and others. You’re trying to help 1.4 billion people. It’s really remarkable. We’re really proud of the work we’re doing together. And really very blessed to have this relationship. We’ve got a comment. [inaudible 004406]. Adam has a question. So her role in China outreach as a partner? Is that a question? I should have read that one first, sorry for not screening it. Adam, can you clarify the question there and we can get you an answer?

Adam
Yeah. I was just wondering what her role is. I’ve been listening the whole time, but-

David Poole
I can answer that. Because I’m the one who authored an engineer and I’ve said no to a thousand requests from people around the globe, from big players to small, unique businesses. She’s doing in China what we’ve done here in the US. We spent a lot of time in November, December, January setting her up and that was it. Since then it’s been her business, her initiatives. We talked all the time and she’s literally doing the marketing, doing the business development, doing the strategic partnership, doing the IP protection, doing the translations, building the website, everything we would want to do there but would have to have an installation there and have to hire a team there.

David Poole
We started that process six years ago with a different organization and it flopped, which was another cause for our board and our advisor to be like, “Hey, we’ve already failed once why do you want to try this again?” But Dr. Hu, she talked about the efficiency of… She works with 10 people and she’s got reach of 16,000. She’s just got, and you can tell from this interview an intensity, a compassion and a drive where failure is not an option. We’re doing very little. We talked and it’s mostly about her victories and my jaw dropped I [inaudible 004556], “Wow, it took us seven years and we worked just as hard to get to that point. Holy crap.”

David Poole
So it is truly a partnership. And it’s all on gut instinct and what we can do. We’ve always said to people, “Show me what you can do, don’t tell me. I’ve heard it all. Everyone’s got a big ego, everyone’s a hero, everyone’s got tons of access and listens to them and they’re influential.” That’s great. We used to buy into that story very readily because you want to hear that, you want the fast way. Like Dr. Hu said, “You want the easy way.” Well, it never works out. And at the time when we committed those resources it was the end of the year, it was the biggest year we’ve ever had. We were pivoting to a new platform.

David Poole
There was so much complexity going on and we redirected our resources, we said, “Hey, let’s build this right for Dr. Hu because we trust her. We think she can do it. She’s already shown us enough, and then we’re done. We can just watch her grow and build a very interesting business, but do what she wants to do, which is help people.” Which is near and dear to our heart too. It’s not easy. If I could find 10 Dr. Hus, like she’s got with her group I would never have to work again, which would be really nice. So Drew, a question from you. Do you have any techniques for people whose brain nervous system can be resistant to fully relaxing with NuCalm? It’s a question for you Dr. Hu.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Yes, we do. Especially for the entrepreneurs we work with here in China and the recommendation we gave to them is that we use a disc first. Just use a disc. And after one week they started to get more relaxed and they sleep better. And then they started to use the whole NuCalm system. And the four children we have the same thing. We are not sure if their nervous system relisten to NuCalm, they just [inaudible 004800]. They just say, “I don’t know how to use it.” “Sure.” And we find a way to communicate with them. Like, we asked them to pick up the errors by themselves, the eye mask with their name on it. And we have group of people who are very good working with children. But for the [inaudible 004825] question we just use disc first to get them slowly into a stage that they would like to try.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
And for the very anxious people, we just start to talk to them and get them prepared, maybe one month later. They just need more confidence sometimes, and they need to feel it. And I remember one case [inaudible 004853] and we said, “[inaudible 004857], why don’t you just try the disc, help you relax?” She said, “I do not want to spend any money.” “Okay. Sure.” And then change of heart. We started her on a very specific diet called gluten-free diet and then one week later she feels the difference then she started to sleep better. She starts to be more optimistic.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
So we have many all the ways to help them. That’s why we are doing NuCalm very differently, because we have already had a solid background in nutritional medicine and environmental medicine. If it doesn’t work we can use other methods first.

David Poole
Thank you. A question from Adam. What is the biggest impact from NuCalm for you personally?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
[inaudible 004949] sleep less, work more.

David Poole
Oh dear. Yeah, of course. Yes. That’s a curse and a blessing. Sleep less, work more. If you want to be like Dr. Hu, the NuCalm is the product for you. A question from Deb. What is the situation when people have pacemakers? Is there no way for them to benefit from NuCalm? My husband just had one inserted. There’s no negative consequence of having a pacemaker. We use to contraindicate the quaint electrotherapy stimulation device because it was a STEM and we didn’t want to mess with the legal ramifications of someone having an untoward event with a pacemaker.

David Poole
As a matter of fact your husband’s heart’s going to beat really predictably. There’s no negative consequences to using NuCalm at all. And we’ve proven over time, and Dr. Hu can talk about this, I think she’s doing some HRV. When people do talk about HRV, they talk about the aura ring and stuff like that. We’re talking about very complex mathematical algorithms not related to consumer level instrumentation and for people with heart issues, cardiovascular issues NuCalm is a very valuable tool because it’s going to increase HRV, increase the complexity in between beats and the electrical frequency. So I would encourage your husband to use NuCalm as much as possible. Adam has a follow-up question. How much did you sleep before NuCalm and how much do you sleep now?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Because I had trauma, I slept always more than others. So before NuCalm I slept like eight to nine hours to feel pretty well during the day. And often NuCalm it’s five to six.

David Poole
Wow. I believe it. I mean, we talk all the time and I call you on a time and you pick up, which is not respectful of me, I know. I’ve got a question from [Chee 005157]. How’s the cultural difference between the Eastern and Western world impact the adoption and penetration of NuCalm in China?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
I don’t see much difference. The [inaudible 005211] difference is just how you share information with people. That’s what I’m good at. So we just use a way people can accept. Even in China we do not say Western or Eastern. And we only say for house professionals I will show them the data. I will talk about the mechanism as a neuroscientist, but for the public, and I will train my students how to share information with them. Just focus on their symptoms. They want to change. They want to improve and share information with them. If you have all the options, try other options first, before you try NuCalm. It’s a very, very useful technique. And then people say, “Okay, you are so confident.” Like, for the [June 005303] which I say, “Okay, if you purchase NuCalm, if it doesn’t work in one month then you get it for free.” We are very confident. That’s how we do things here.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
When people will say, “I’m not sure if it works for me.” I said, “Okay, you have two options. One is that you do not try it you just miss the opportunity to help yourself or your family members or you try it and gave yourself opportunity. What we can do is to reduce the risk as much as we can. So you can rent NuCalm or you can use NuCalm for free during the [inaudible 005344].” But we are asking them to exactly follow our orders. We have consulted with them the whole [inaudible 005354]. It’s not like they purchase it and not using it and by the end of the month they say, “Oh, it doesn’t work.”

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
By doing that, we get a lot of people’s attention. And then some people who are happy to use and we will start to pay more attention to it. So we are so confident about NuCalm and maybe I should give it a try. I think it works for both cultures. It doesn’t have much difference.

David Poole
According to Neil, can NuCalm help people of moderate OCD?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
We did say it helps. You didn’t see that in US. OCD is not that hard more related to anxiety.

David Poole
Okay. Yeah. Question from Rusty. I’m wondering about volume when doing NuCalm, any comments?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
For partner, and it really depends on the situation. Based on our experience not much yet, now compared to you… If I’m using it at home and do I try to turn down the volume as low as possible. And sometimes I use the [inaudible 005508] high-speed train probably [inaudible 005510], it [inaudible 005513] to cover the background noise. It really depends.

David Poole
Yeah. And Rusty to add to that, the signaling, so it’s not about the listening experience, it’s about presenting the midbrain with two disparate signals. That’s why you need the both channels. So you need to have headphones. It can be low volume, no volume. You can be legally deaf, as long as we’re presenting those signals your midbrain is going to do the math and the entrainment happens in the midbrain. But we always say, “Hey, let it be a comfortable level of volume.” In day surgeries and loud environments. Yes. You want the noise canceling turned up and you want to obfuscate as much ambient noise as possible. But at home, it’s whatever you’re comfortable with.

David Poole
Absolutely, a lot of times I’ve got some hearing issues. I’ll put NuCalm on and be in a place where I’m pretty quiet and I get blast like, “Oh my God, I’m deaf. Wow. That was really uncomfortable.” I’ll turn it down then of course I end up turning it off. A question from Adam again. You’ve got a fan in Adam, I think Dr. Hu, what is your favorite NuCalm track and which do you use most often?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Recovery two.

David Poole
That was quick. It was a good answer. It’s my favorite also. A question from Jessica, why is pericardium six the chosen point?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
I don’t think that’s a question for me.

David Poole
No, I can answer that one. I mean, you already know the answer. You’re a lot more talented in neuroscience than I am. So the pericardium six is the access point because we’re going after the pericardium which is rich in vagal nerve fibers. So it’s two and a half fingers from the joint, from the left wrist. That’s an acupressure point. If the signal is going to insert itself into your [inaudible 005705], travel up the left arm to the pericardium SAC, the pericardium SAC like I said, is rich in vagal nerve fibers, your vagus nerve is your T1 line, it integrates the brain at cranial nerve 10, exits and travels through the entire body, integrates all of your vital organs. And it’s a communication pathway all the way down to your feet.

David Poole
So we want to bring it to the pericardium SAC. It’s going to broadcast a message from there to your midbrain to slow down the over fired neurons, up regulate GABA production. Adam is very excited. Yay. Recovery two is his favorite also. I’m not sure we’re leading people to that, but Tony Robins, the same thing. A lot of people I talked to recovery two. A lot of athletes I work with. My personal favorite is recovery two. I’ve only listened to recovery three maybe once or twice. I’m very much… With someone talking about [inaudible 005802] I’ve got probably a heavier case in mile [inaudible 005805] personally. Richard has a question. When using AirPods, do you need to use pods? Yes, absolutely. That binaural delivery system is mission critical to get in the entrainment.

David Poole
Now, you can have a reduction in stress playing it ambiently. We’ve got some daycare centers that use NuCalm. They broadcast over the speakers at rest time and they’re reporting good results. It’s not scientific by any means. But you’re not going to get the same effect. London has a question. I use deep recovery one a lot. Maybe I’ll try to do recovery tomorrow. Deep recovery is new. And I can share this. And I think Martin told us the last time, he’s been using deep recovery a lot. It’s 18 months of more engineering, more horsepower. It’s a very powerful version. To me it’s like getting hit in the back of the head with a hammer. I use NuCalm for energy. I don’t use it like Dr. Hu to reduce my sleep time but I use it to pick up my energy once or twice a day. And I love the recovery track.

David Poole
And my brain is very well conditioned. I’ve been doing this for 10 years, so I’ve got a bit of a headstart. But the deep recovery, I did it three days in a row a few weeks ago in the middle of the day when I generally make time for NuCalm and I was out for over 50 minutes each time. I didn’t lack energy. I lacked enthusiasm. I didn’t care. I was like, “Hmm, my life isn’t going to get any better if I leave this environment, I’m in bed right now. This is great. I know it’s three o’clock in the afternoon but why?” I was having trouble answering that question. Three days I called Dan I said, “Dude, what are you doing? This deep recovery thing is… I need to be busy. I’m doing this because I’m overwhelmed and overworked and I can’t get enough done.”

David Poole
And he said, “Oh yeah, I probably should have warned you, do that first thing in the morning. It’s a great way to start your day. And that energy will carry you through eight, nine hours. Middle of the afternoon you can have that effect of hmm, I’m so relaxed I’m lacking ambition.” Okay. Next question, Jessica. Can you use bone conduction headphones instead of NuCalm? Yes, you can. And we can send you some recommendations. That can be very expensive, the effective ones, but we’re doing some R&D right now for the US military on phone bone conduction delivery systems.

David Poole
What kind of growth do you expect in China and to outpace the US? Hey, that’s not fair, Adam. She’s got a much bigger market and she’s much more disciplined, right? We’re silly capitalists here. We’re easily distracted. It’s been 11 years and we’re… Yes, I quit. We’re not going to outperform Dr. Hu in the head to head race. What do you think Dr. Hu?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
In facts, China has this advantage, like especially for my team. In the organization we help build is like I’m the teacher and they’re my students. So there’ll be very little argument when we make a decision. When we decided to move to one direction, we will put all our effort together, like 10 of us. And I also have partners who have very strong [inaudible 010133] either with government or with special hospitals and they are top leaders in the country already. I wish we can sell more in China, but I know that’s never been our goal [inaudible 010150], not the number of sales. Especially at the beginning I want us to go most steadily.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
Like, if we have 1000 NuCalm system out I want to know exactly who are using them. I can track them down. If I want to say, “Okay, what exactly is the problem? What the problem do they have and how can I help them more?” But in the future, maybe next year we will grow pretty fast and three years from now, not sure. And I think we just follow the flow. Do the right thing.

David Poole
No, I totally agree with that. It’s never been a money play for us. I mean, we were practically insolvent for years and all of us were personally bankrupt that’s because we believed that it was so fascinating. And you went through the same experience yourself, Dr. Hu with your students, like, “Wow, I had no idea it could help this and I had no idea it could help that. Maybe it can help this.” But we’ve got to refine the technique a little bit and educate more. It’s just been a really interesting discovery and anything about the brain is personal. We all have brains. We’re all excited by them. We’re all confused by them. We’re all intrigued by it. So if you can afford to do it and it’s a mission you accept. Once you accept a mission, you can’t stop.

David Poole
That’s the craziest part I say to people, “Hey, you want to be part of the team. You’re going to earn it.” Once you’re part of the team you can’t leave. It’s very much like a non-violent mob group or mafia group, and maybe we will be violent. No, one’s really tried to leave us yet. So I can’t tell you what those consequences might be, but it’s been a really interesting ride for all of us. Let’s see. Rusty has a comment. I’ve been using aftershocks bone head set with ignite during exercise and getting a big kick in performance personally.

David Poole
Thanks rusty for that. Dr. Hu, are you using ignite at all? No, you don’t need it. You’re naturally ignited. That’ll be a secondary application we’ll provide later, I guess. Martin has a question. Could Dr. Hu expand on a couple of our most challenging patient cases that have succeeded with NuCalm? So what are the ones that look like they wasn’t going to work and you got them converted?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
For challenging and to me, what do think as a challenging patient cases?

David Poole
[crosstalk 010433]. Martin do you have any examples or you’re just thinking… Your own personal story. I know you’ve been very dedicated to NuCalm and you’re trying to break through and you’re not getting the results you’re looking for. Right? Can’t hear you Martin.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
[inaudible 010452].

David Poole
There you go. You’re unmuted. Go ahead Martin.

Martin
Okay. No, it was just an open question to Dr. Hu what the… Some of our most interesting cases were… You’ve had great success with NuCalm where you just have very challenging cases where you weren’t sure that you could succeed with NuCalm and yet you did.

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
That’s why I said, what do you mean challenging? What kind of challenge? Is it from a TV’s part? It’s very hard house conditions that cannot be solved by traditional medicine, or it’s just challenging because a patient doesn’t work with us. It’s different.

Martin
Okay.

David Poole
[crosstalk 010543] Dr. Hu, it’s someone who’s working with you but has an extreme health condition and have you been able to convert people in that regard?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
That was really interesting. Like the [foreign language 010557], there’s no integration in China now for [inaudible 010602], the antibody. How can we get an antibody reduced? We tried dietary intervention, like [inaudible 010610]. We can get those young girls get their period back, get them started to… They’re pregnant, but still their antibody level is still high. Their immune system is not going back to normal, but often NuCalm we see the antibody goes down within two months. Is that challenging? That really interesting.

David Poole
Yeah, that’s really interesting. Do we need to increase your population? Maybe you don’t want to help those people. That’s a philosophical debate. Of course. A question from a [PurVida 010652], what is your experience working with seniors, 75 and older? Is NuCalm safe for people with pacemakers. So we answered the pacemaker question. Yes, it is. It’s safe with anybody. All we’ve done with NuCalm is mimicking your body’s own process for winding down and preparing for sleep, and we know you need to sleep to stay alive.

David Poole
So there’s nothing inorganic. So it’s very much an entrainment function. We’re using systems, mathematical models and chemistry to mimic the process of winding down. That’s really all it is. That’s why it’s safe. That’s why we can do it and leave the room and not care. It’s never going to cause an untoward event now, people who are anxious or have PTSD and have psychological issues and subconscious issues, yes, they can have an uncomfortable NuCalm experience but their heart rate is not going to increase, their blood pressure is not going to increase, their muscle tension doesn’t increase. They’re physiologically in capable of responding to the stress, but psychologically like, “Wow, I don’t really want to be here. This is a really uncomfortable place for me.”

David Poole
So the other part of the question though, for Dr. Hu is, what is your experience working with seniors, 75 and older?

Dr. Xiaoyan Hu
That’s my favorite group. So I have a student who is leading a project just to cast and collect all the data from how NuCalm works for that specific group. The oldest person we have in NuCalm is 96 and the major improvement we say is that sleep quality and cognitive function. And among those people some of them already have diagnose [inaudible 010836]. And some of them are very healthy, they’re just 80 year old. They get up at night like three times. And the whole sleep quality increase. And for them, it’s hard to do the depression, anxiety assessment but we focus on sleep quality and cognitive function. Very safe, easy to use and they love it.

David Poole
Excellent. Well, that’s it Dr. Hu. We’ve come to the end of this amazing journey. Thank you so much. That was a real pleasure. I’m really excited. We know how great you are now. And now some of our mastermind participants have a glimpse of it too.